Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
He might still read your mind in the exact moment you do something.So, still knows the future.
Also remember am not God. I don't know how he works, that's how i picture it.
Anyway, he doesn't knows the future if he reads my mind. I don't know what will happen in 15 years. lol
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Omniscience is knowing everything. So if we limit the Universe to a card with numbers from 1 to 10 and you were to guess which one I'd pick then you'd be Omniscience.However, that rhetoric isn't good. Because if someone who doesn't know the number range wouldn't be able to know
So we humans are the ones who don't know the range of numbers here.
And still, God can know what you will do regardless of seeing the future. He can still read our minds.
Wow man. When you lose at one thing you switch to the next. lol
Doesn't matter though. If he has to read your mind, it means he didn't know what you were going to do in the first place. No need to read a mind when you already know what a person is going to do is there?
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Guys remember that's how i see it.I might be wrong.
Let's say he does know the future what is the problem with that?
That's the point. We are working off the premise he does. All powerful and what not.
By this logic, he knows everything you will ever do before you do it. Not the possibilities, but what you will actually do. This negates free will.
So if you are a homicidal maniac, then ultimately God created you that way and he is a dick unworthy of praise.
Originally posted by Ursumeles
The problem is that he would allow the slaughter of millions of people then.
Originally posted by socool8520
That's the point. We are working off the premise he does. All powerful and what not.By this logic, he knows everything you will ever do before you do it. Not the possibilities, but what you will actually do. This negates free will.
So if you are a homicidal maniac, then ultimately God created you that way and he is a dick unworthy of praise.
No, he knew the posibilities along with what will happen. Else if he doesn't know the other possibilities then he isn't Omniscience.
I just remembered that i asked the same question once, and this is the response i got:
God gave you free will or not!? Yes he did. Does God know the future? Yes he does. Does the fact that God knew the future means that he made you do it? No
The fact that God knows the future doesn't mean he makes you do the things you do.
Also, I believe that God believes in you!
God believes you'll be able to change your future.
Omniscience also means that God knows what is possible.
God wouldn't have given you free will if he thought you weren't able to change your destiny! 😉
We humans are quick to Judge and to Criticize!
God isn't.
If you were Hitler. Lets assume you are Hitler. God knows that you will kill people, yet he gave you free will. He knows you can turn the boat around. He believes you can change it. He knows you can, since he is OMNISCIENCE. That's how God responds to Free Will.
He will let you make the decisions. He won't force you to any road.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
No, he knew the posibilities along with what will happen. Else if he doesn't know the other possibilities then he isn't Omniscience.God wouldn't have given you free will if he thought you weren't able to change your destiny! 😉
If he actually knows what will happen, he doesn't need the possibilities. They are irrelevant. In the numbers scenario for example, if I actually know the number you will choose is seven, then the possibilities don't matter. They don't change anything.
Then he doesn't know everything. You're going around in circles. Either he knows or he doesn't. What do you think. Omniscient or not?
Josh, there are two possibilities.
Either a) God is omniscient and knows what *will* happen (and not just that sometthing could happen)
And then this is the case:
by socool8520
That's the point. We are working off the premise he does. All powerful and what not.By this logic, he knows everything you will ever do before you do it. Not the possibilities, but what you will actually do. This negates free will.
So if you are a homicidal maniac, then ultimately God created you that way and he is a dick unworthy of praise.
Or
B) He knows what could happen, but he doesn't knows what will happen.
Conclusion - he isn't omniscient.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Considereing we have free will, is God responsible for you murdering your ex-wife?If in case you respond like socool8520. Read what i'll write to him.
I wonder the same once too.
God is Omnipotent, but i have Free Will!!!!!
So, in that respect. I was allowed to do WHATEVER I WANT. God gave us free will, he promised he wouldn't interfere in our decisions.
So. In that respect, If i am about to murder you, can God stop me?? HELL YES. But will he? No. Because then he is breaking his promise. He is being a liar.
The moment God steps in to stop me from killing you, then in that moment i don't longer have free will.
So, it's funny. We humans want to be in control yet we want God to help us.
If it were to be opposite. We would argue how God is tyrannical for forcing us to do his will.
So, you see?
What if you make all the right choices and you are killed by another person, intentionally? Where's God then?
Originally posted by socool8520
If he actually knows what will happen, he doesn't need the possibilities. They are irrelevant. In the numbers scenario for example, if I actually know the number you will choose is seven, then the possibilities don't matter. They don't change anything.Then he doesn't know everything. You're going around in circles. Either he knows or he doesn't. What do you think. Omniscient or not?
Yes and No.
I realize that the Card rhetoric isn't valid. Since you are assuming God exists in a plane where he can't see the cards and cant see your finger aiming at the card.
If you were to place God in a room with you holding the cards aiming at a number. God will know the number you are aiming at, so he knows the number you will pick or picked.
God is Omniscience he has seen the future. But then the problem is that Reality isn't linear.
If you were to travel in to the future and see how old you are in the future, does it mean that you will still reach that age in your present reality? No. You can always kill yourself when you return and create an alternate reality.
So God knows the future. And he also knows that you can change it.
That's why God is Omniscience and Omnipresent.
He is in all planes of existance as well as knows everything that will happen and anything that might happen.
Originally posted by meep-meep
What if you make all the right choices and you are killed by another person, intentionally? Where's God then?
Waiting for you in heaven! XD.
The moment God gave us free will he is alien to whichever thing we do. God told us we were free to choose amongst Good and Evil, and that we were going to be Judged as such.
Death is but happiness for the righteous, since they have already earnt heaven.
Why should death be a bad thing? It's just the end of this carnal life.
Originally posted by socool8520
I'm not suggesting anything. you are. I work off the premise that God has infinite power and infinite knowledge because that is the story that is pushed to us.Working on this premise, he is a dick. He created you, and knows what you will do but doesn't care until judgement day.
He knows. But he believes you can change that.
God gave you free will. You are not limited to anything. You are the builder of your future. Which God monitors.
God is all knowing for he knows what you will become, but also knows what you can become.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
He knows. But he believes you can change that.God gave you free will. You are not limited to anything. You are the builder of your future. Which God monitors.
God is all knowing for he knows what you will become, but also knows what you can become.
Again, those are two different things.
Originally posted by socool8520
Lol. No. If God believes you can change, that means he is uncertain of your end. If he is uncertain of your end, this means he doesn't know your end. This mean he is not Omniscient.If he knows your end, than there is no need to believe it can be changed because it is the actual end.
Again am not who to know how God works.
But you are picturing as if God is living in a point in time. Which is t the case.
God in all planes of existance. Which nit only makes him know the future but the alternate realities.
Again the future isnt linear.
God knows all the futures. Which puts him at a omniscience level.