Originally posted by SunRazer
Superficial wounds mean literally nothing and have no correlation with, let alone effect on, the outcome of fights.I don't need Season 3.
And only being able to block one of your opponent's move before getting your leg cut is a pretty good indication of which outcome that fight was headed towards IMO.
And yea if your argument for oppress hinges on getting outclassed by plo koon, then yea you need season 3.
Plo Koon has:
-Beating a superior version of ventress to the one that beat fisto(one of the most skilled Jedi in history) while injured
-And outclassing a superior version of the oppress that with favorable aid stalemated season 4 ventress
ROTS Shaak ti has:
- getting stomped by grevious(she was exhausted but she also had the help of several council masters, masters and padawans)
- blitzing Maganguards
Accolade/Statement wise for Koon
-Koon scales off fisto who is one of the most skilled Jedi in the order's history
-Considered a worthy challenge by TPM maul, a cocky fck who regularly underestimates opponents
-being one of the most powerful Jedi in history
Rots Shaak has:
-being listed alongside dooku(which doesn't remotely imply parity) because she happens to be one of the only two makashi duelists still active at the time
-being a skilled combatant
There is no argument for ti against Koon pre tfu
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
1. Laughable to you maybe, it represents how powerful Galen is, and Kota repelled his TK and lightning attacks.
It's laughable that you're trying to pass off his casual lightning bursts as being anything of that magnitude, yeah. If QTE's count, Galen fugging stomps Kota with the Force when he goes all-out.
And you're accusing me of lowballing; talk about the ****ing highballing.
Also skill on it's own doesn't matter for shit. Kota is so far above Kavar in power that it makes up for any skill gap you presume, for which there are no actual proof anyway. They are both Juyo masters, and that's all they have skill accolde wise.
Still need the quote for Kota being a Juyo master. On the other hand, Kavar's a skilled master of forms IV - VII and their Jar'kai variants, a lightsaber virtuoso in an era of expert duelists, and was a renowned Jedi Guardian with a reputation that extended past the Order. So as you claim with Shaak and Plo, Kavar's better because his accolades are better. Because really, Kota's only feats are dueling evenly with a Galen who goes on to struggle with the Desolous simulacrum and being one-shotted by Boba Fett. That doesn't make a difference.
2. Under Vader's relentless tutelage, the Apprentice all but perfected the fine art of lightsaber combat and learned to wield many fearsome dark side powers.
-- The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
"Relentless tutelage" is natural for a Sith. In no way does that preclude Vader holding back his training.
3. Eh yeah it is. You bring up a comfrontation where they didn't actually dueled, to lowball his dueling capability.
And yet they did... Kazdan's mobility is an integral part of his character and dueling. Sure, the example on its own may not be much, but you're missing the point; Galen's record is littered with him using circumstance or Force abuse to win. He doesn't have a single pure saber victory (Maris is his closest).
4. Nope he still doesn't. And yeah that feat can be used here, she held them off, your pathetic lowballing again won't change that.
Lol Maul considered him one of the absolute best alongside Mace, he's stated to be a challenge for any Jedi to beat, and he's one of the most powerful Jedi in history. Shaak's accolades aren't better in the slightest. "Only the best can stand against her?" Plo's one of the best. The rest is stuff that Plo has word-for-word.
Yeah, no, they can't be used unless she's carrying a saberstaff here. The disparity between her performance before and after getting her hands on the staff is proof that something changed drastically, and we've yet to factor in that she excels at fighting within mobs and crowds. There's no shit lowballing here, there's just you being a blatant Shaak fanboy. Fap harder, squirt.
You couldn't even respond to Shaak struggling with a lone Magnaguard. 😂
5. Shit example, Kenobi's Soresu was being overwhelmed so he switched to offense too. Anyhow all your argument here is shit tier, only because a SITH decided to use THE SITH FORM instead of the PASSIVE Soresu, to beat his opponent suddenly he's shit? You are literally saying that Galen's preference makes him bad 😂
Yeah, Kenobi went offensive, or rather, counteroffensive, with Soresu. So there's nothing different here.
Nowhere did I say it makes him bad (I rescinded my comment about him not being able to win without Juyo). Although it certainly doesn't reflect that vast disparity you were imagining between the two, circumstances being taken into account.
6. The point is that he wasn't even hurt by an all out Force attack from Galen. And you want to lowball him with guys like that.
Sorry, but neither were the droids that Galen threw on Raxus Prime with his "all-out" hurricane. Galen's not at the point where he can just liquefy people with his Force Waves; they're just going to throw them.
EDIT: If you're referring to the Shadow Guard tanking the impact and rolling with it, again, that'd be like saying Revan resisted Vitiate's charged-up Wave on a nexus. Not quite true, although I'd like a quote for what happens next. In the PS2 game, this attack kills the Shadow Guard.
7. It's a canon statement, sorry if it rustles your jimmy.
Too bad far more canon statements (including more recent ones) have a vastly more skilled Vader struggling with TESB Luke.
8. Neither of those showings are close to Galen's, so yeah...
They're close to Galen's showings that he shows on a whim instead of having to charge up his attacks.
9. Based on contending with TFU Shaak, who is > RotS Shaak, who is > Plo, who is ~ Pre-prime Ventress and Savage.
Yeah, no. Plo's accolades are better than Shaak's and so are his feats. Savage and Ventress are each his better.
Galen's "contending" consisted of him being driven backwards and desperately cutting off Sarlaac teeth and spamming Lightning to avoid dying. Yeah, Savage and Ventress have him beat, and easily at that.
🙂
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I won't turn this into a debate since you asked politely ( plus Zoltan seems to have you covered ). You implied there's an existing quote stating that "all of Galen's skills" were required to merely survive against the simulacrum? Could you post it if that's the case. If not, do you mind if I asked why you assumed such?
Kento Marek's Force Ghost warns you beforehand that you will need all your skills to survive.
Originally posted by SunRazer
[B]EDIT: If you're referring to the Shadow Guard tanking the impact and rolling with it, again, that'd be like saying Revan resisted Vitiate's charged-up Wave on a nexus. Not quite true, although I'd like a quote for what happens next. In the PS2 game, this attack kills the Shadow Guard.
"Too hard to explain," he grunted, not sure what the explanation even was. "Get to the balloon dock and wait for me there."He broke off communications to block a downward slash that almost knocked him flat. Glancing around for Kota, he was relieved to see that the general was nowhere nearby. Now he could summon the full power of the dark side. Drawing on the sense of betrayal and shock he had felt on seeing the figure waiting for him-this deadly, dark assassin who might or might not have something to do with Darth Vader-he pushed with all his might.
His ears rang, such was the energy he released. The dock buckled underneath him; rivets popped and welds tore. His assailant went flying across the wide space, arms spread wide apart. The saber-staff cut a long, twisting line in the metal floor as its owner rolled and came up standing.
A bolt of Sith lightning shot from the hand not holding the staff.
- TFU novel
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Only thing I don't get is how can you even use the keyboard while having down syndrome.
Feats: Plo Koon>ROTS Ti
Accolades: Plo Koon>ROTS Ti
Overall: Plo Koon>ROTS Ti
and if people want to actually consider oppress's victory valid despite him being outclassed in the actual fight, then thats fine because using that line of logic I can use the following scaling:
Koon>Fisto>AOTC Kneobi>TPM Kneobi>TPM Maul(one of the most skilled sith lords in history)>Qui Gon(one of the most skilled jedi in history)
The above is still way better scaling than anything ti gets
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Hm? Galen defeated the 2nd Shadow Guard by hurling a spinning fan at him as they were fighting back and forth which surprised the Guard and cut him to pieces.The first Guard died in a Force Lighting struggle, being blown back by all its power going into him. Though in the comic, the Guard gets frozen in carbonite when Galen threw his lightsaber at a gas pipe from behind.
Where you getting that a Guard got choked and hurled into lava?
That's from the PS2 game. He gets Choked and launched into the melted ore. Didn't happen in the novel, as we concluded.
[i]Yeah, no. Plo's accolades are better than Shaak's and so are his feats. Savage and Ventress are each his better.
. [/B]
Plo started the fight by charging Savage as the clones fired. Savage then proceeded to block Plo's attack whilst TK'ing the clones off the ledge, which means he started the fight with an edge. Plo takes advantage of that distraction to cut Savage's leg, which is responded to by Savage kicking Plo in the face immediately thereafter.
In fairness, Savage won when Plo was looking away, so I could settle for them being even though Plo himself only landed his attack with the aid of a distraction and Savage at least tagged Plo's face with a kick without circumstances.
And yeah, the lightsaber burn was superficial since it didn't even hinder Savage in the fight. Obviously he needed to get it treated afterwards as you would any lightsaber burn, but it didn't impact his performance.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Plo started the fight by charging Savage as the clones fired. Savage then proceeded to block Plo's attack whilst TK'ing the clones off the ledge, which means he started the fight with an edge. Plo takes advantage of that distraction to cut Savage's leg, which is responded to by Savage kicking Plo in the face immediately thereafter.In fairness, Savage won when Plo was looking away, so I could settle for them being even though Plo himself only landed his attack with the aid of a distraction and Savage at least tagged Plo's face with a kick without circumstances.
And yeah, the lightsaber burn was superficial since it didn't even hinder Savage in the fight. Obviously he needed to get it treated afterwards as you would any lightsaber burn, but it didn't impact his performance.
1. Not at all. Plo is clearly seen directly in front of Savage before the clones fire and in the next panel, Savage seems to have his blade locked with someone off-panel as he blasts the clones away - we can presume that to be Plo. There's no way Plo was doing nothing for all that time; not when he was right in front of Savage even before the clones attacked. And if you start the fight against a distracted opponent, you're at an immediate advantage. They can block your next few blows or otherwise but you control the flow of the fight.
2. Not really. They were both superficial injuries; Savage wasn't even given pause by Plo's leg cut given that he immediately kicks Plo in the face afterwards. And it did do something - it knocked Plo's face sideways. Not to mention that another clone tried to shoot Savage from behind mid-duel. We know that even the slightest distraction in a duel can be fatal (that should be obvious, but it's outright stated in the TPM junior novelization, Death Star, etc.), yet Savage managed to deflect that bolt back into the clone's head without even looking and proceeded to snatch Plo's breathing mask before the latter could respond; sure, it's taking advantage of a distraction, but it's still a good feat as far as skill and speed go, especially considering that Savage had to deal with a distraction of his own in that clone who tried to get him from behind.