Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Not at all. Plo is clearly seen directly in front of Savage before the clones fire and in the next panel, Savage seems to have his blade locked with someone off-panel as he blasts the clones away - we can presume that to be Plo. There's no way Plo was doing nothing for all that time; not when he was right in front of Savage even before the clones attacked. And if you start the fight against a distracted opponent, you're at an immediate advantage. They can block your next few blows or otherwise but you control the flow of the fight.2. Not really. They were both superficial injuries; Savage wasn't even given pause by Plo's leg cut given that he immediately kicks Plo in the face afterwards. And it did do something - it knocked Plo's face sideways. Not to mention that another clone tried to shoot Savage from behind mid-duel. We know that even the slightest distraction in a duel can be fatal (that should be obvious, but it's outright stated in the TPM junior novelization, Death Star, etc.) Savage managed to deflect that bolt back into the clone's head without even looking and proceeded to snatch Plo's breathing mask before the latter could respond; sure, it's taking advantage of a distraction, but it's still a good feat as far as skill and speed go.
1. Plo is clearly jumping out of the way. Additionally when we see the scan with the knocked over clone troopers, plo is not clashing with oppress
Not that this really matters. We see that the clones have been taken care of before we see plo koon and oppress in a bladelock which is before plo koon injures opress. The clones had absolutely nothing to do with plo breaking oppress's guard.
2 Oppress landing a kick doesn't at all prove he wasn't injured. And being able to make koon turn turn his head doesn't equate to giveing someone a inury that late rneeds healing.
That aside, I'd say you'r emissing the point. Being able to immediately pierce someone's guard with your saber showcases superior skill, responding with a physical hit doesn't have to.
3.Perfectly fine feat speed wise, but to use it to argue oppress "beat koon" or anything in terms of this battle is ridiculous. And yet again, I'd point out that what tpm kenobi did to tpm maul when he was distarcted(by his own stupidity) was way more impressive, yet no one here tries to actually make anything impressive out of what kenobi did.
Oppress being able to deflect blasterfire from behind and then take koon's mask off when he let his guard down is a grear tactical showing i guess, and maybe a speed one, but thats it.
1. Plo's jumping behind Savage as the clones fire. I don't see how that precludes Savage clashing with someone on one side as he Force Pushes the clones on the other, as the next panel shows.
2. It shows that he wasn't actually slowed by the cut to his leg. And of course it needs healing - it's a burn. Just because it should be healed afterwards doesn't mean it was of a negative impact in the fight. I mean, you don't leave your wounds there for show. That means nothing at all.
3. The only problem is that the TPM one is blatant PIS. But they're in a similar boat.
1. He's jumping out of the way. And that aside, we see the clones have already been dealt with(them being knocked over)before the scan where oppress and koon are in a bladelock. The clones had nothing to do with oppress getting his guard broken because they were already out of the fight.
2.there's also koon immediately after citing his injury as a reason they had to flee and couldn't take on the upcoming jedi. And being able to throw a kick doens't mean you aren't affected by an injury. There's such thing as adrenaline.
And that aside, being able to pierce someone's guard with a lightsaber is mor eimpressive than doing it with a kick as a result of that attack. Oppress kicking koon doesn't change that oppress had his guard immediately broken by a far more dangerous attack than the one he threw.
3. I could say the same of what oppress did
1. He's obviously behind Savage as of the next panel, so he had to be jumping over Savage or running around him. And I'm saying that in the scan with Savage pushing the clones away, he's arguably in an off-panel bladelock with Plo already.
2. Well, Sith feed off pain anyway, so there's more than one plausible argument to be made that Savage wasn't affected.
3. That's why I said they're in a similar boat. The difference being that Savage didn't require any sort of plot device which makes the TPM scene a lot easier to argue as PIS.
1.Arguable. And say we give oppress this off panel bladelock, it doesn't change that after the clomes were dispatched he was still engaging koon in a bladelock which is still before us being shown a scan of the fight involving maul which is before koon ijure doppress.
2. Ther's also oppress having a verbal reaction to koon's hit and the vice versa not being true.
But being generous and assuming oppress wasn't affected by having his leg cut(though then you'd have to concede maul being hindered vs qui gon), I highly doubt his chances vs a dude who almost immediately broke his guard with a lightsaber
3. So a clone trooper interfering in the fight and stupidly hindering his own commander isn't a plot device?
1. In which case my point stands. Plo still had the edge over the flow of the fight by virtue of Savage having to contend with him and the clones at once at first.
2. Well, Savage is a reckless fighter, so that's an entirely plausible thing for someone to land wounds like that. As for conceding on Maul, no I don't, since they're completely separate characters. Maul's wound was explicitly stated to be a minimal, almost negligible, but still existent, hindrance on his fighting abilities.
3. I said Savage didn't need the plot device; it came of its own accord. So you can argue it as PIS but TPM will always be easier to argue as such. Obi-Wan clearly needed it in order for the story to progress.
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. In which case my point stands. Plo still had the edge over the flow of the fight by virtue of Savage having to contend with him and the clones at once at first.2. Well, Savage is a reckless fighter, so that's an entirely plausible thing for someone to land wounds like that. As for conceding on Maul, no I don't, since they're completely separate characters. Maul's wound was explicitly stated to be a minimal, almost negligible, but still existent, hindrance on his fighting abilities.
3. I said Savage didn't need the plot device; it came of its own accord. So you can argue it as PIS but TPM will always be easier to argue as such. Obi-Wan clearly needed it in order for the story to progress.
1. My point is that Plo had the advantage from the get-go since Savage needed to snap his head away and focus on the clones for a brief moment; a moment being all you need to take control in a swordfight. In other words, Plo landed his cut with an advantage in the fight. Otherwise, they're even.
And I see it as Plo leaping over Savage, who can't immediately follow or counter Plo's move because the clones are shooting. Realistically, it's more likely to be a coordinated attack than one where the clones want to hamper their own commander.
2. Pretty sure the fight would reach a conclusion prior to that, but basically, yeah. Although Savage proved capable of fighting Ventress without the latter landing anything on him.
1. Except that thats not when koon landed his cut on oppress. The cut came after we see maul' inital exchange with the other jedi which came after the blade lock. So even if initally oppress was distracted, thats not an excuse for what happens later after we're shown that the clones aren't a factor anymore.
. Also, aside from us being shown koon jumping sideways in the scan before, if koon was in mid air or just landing while oppress had dealt with the clones, the fight still wouldn't have started untill after the clones are dispatched.
2. Most of the fight had ventress unarmed though. And when she was unarmed she did land multiple hit son him, its just oppress being a fcking tank didn't register her frail attempts. Anyway its also possible that koon, someone who tpm maul despite his ego and tendency to underestimate folks considered a challenge for him, and who disarmed an earlier ventress of one of her blades while injured is just that good.
1. Well, as I said, Koon could've been moving around Savage. The important thing is that he was behind Savage by the time the latter pushed the clones away. And indeed, that's an advantage that doesn't just translate for the next blow or two, but for the fight itself; in other words, Plo's leg cut is very much the product of the circumstances as well.
2. I'm talking about the part before she was disarmed.
It's fair to say that Savage, Ventress and Plo are roughly equal and that any can beat any of the others based on circumstance.
Originally posted by SunRazer
🙂Kento Marek's Force Ghost warns you beforehand that you will need all your skills to survive.
I might be misunderstanding here, so correct me if I'm wrong but, you seem to be suggesting that Kento Marek's warning is one of the reasons for your low placement of Galen's skill level which implies you believe he's at the level of an initiate taking their trials for knighthood. Did I hit the mark?
If that's the case, you understand why I'm having trouble grasping such a stance. Mostly for the reason that Galen already stalemated a Jedi master ( and a rather powerful one at that ) who had mastered multiple forms of lightsaber combat. A combatant who's skill are going to be far above that of an initiate taking their trials to become a Jedi Knight.