Spiderman VS Wolverine in a headbutt fest

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

I've been approaching this from the stance of:

Can opponent A get the advantage over opponent B to the extent that, per the OP's initial guidelines, a ref would award a knockout to opponent A in a sanctioned bout?

To illustrate the above, as I proposed we take a LOOK at what constitutes a knockout for most objective and reasonable people, click the following:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LdOcGobOD2Y

If YouTube does what YouTube does, and eventually makes that link worthless, look up a clip of, and/or read about James Thunder's match against Crawford Grimsley.

Now that's a real world example, and meets the specs of the language of the opening post of this thread, and is formally classed as a knockout in a realm which also has a designation for slightly lesser or potentially controversial wins called TKOs ...

Looking at my previous message, I see YouTube hasn't yet done what YouTube does, but KMC has.
Here's a proper link, as opposed to the URL I got, for those who want to see the boxing clip:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LdOcGobOD2Y

Note, to corroborate what I wrote earlier, this is classed formally as a KO, as opposed to a TKO, on James Thunder's record, at least according to the Wikipedia entry for him::

... and that the event actually has, at least as I type this, a place in history ...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

[Spider-Man] got lucky in that comic [Spider-Man versus Wolverine, 1987], true.

Unlike in his encounters against Lizard, Tombstone, Sandman, She-Hulk, Hammerhead and so on ...

The choice of Sandman is more appropriate for this thread than most readers probably realize. The first Spider-Man versus Sandman issue featured action nearly identical to what the original poster proposed for this thread::

Source: Amazing Spider-Man #4, Volume 1
Writer: Stan Lee
Penciller: Steve Ditko
Year: 1963

Wolverine's low showing pull his average down but it's still way higher than his competitor's in this area. Spider-man can't compete.

Originally posted by Ize19

Not knocked out, just temporarily incapacitated. On the next page, he gets up, and traps him faster than Ock can react to, even while utilizing his spider sense.

No, we saw Superior Spider-Man taking Wolverine off guard, and slamming the back of his head into the ground. He was just temporarily incapacitated; by the next page he had recovered enough to outspeed Spidey's spider sense enhanced reflexes, and trap him at claw point.

One thing I think you're missing here is that, by the language the original poster of this thread has used to this point, "temporarily incapacitating" an opponent the way you see SpiderOctavius doing IS knocking them out.
Now, again, if Dareangel wants to CHANGE that, contradict what the language of his original post implies, it's fine, but, until then, call a spade a spade -- Spider-Ock knocked Wolverine out for at least a few seconds, a duration any boxing ref in the world would award a formal KO for.

Proof is that Spider-Ock has time to address the X-Men's concerns over the Giant Spider, watch it go down, explain what occurred and why he knows this, and briefly discuss why there's suddenly a girl there in the Giant Spider's place, before Wolverine, covered with residual soot from that Giant Spider crashing to the ground, resumes his attack.

Here, re-examine a fuller version of that scene:

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
One thing I think you're missing here is that, by the language the original poster of this thread has used to this point, "temporarily incapacitating" an opponent the way you see SpiderOctavius doing IS knocking them out.
Now, again, if Dareangel wants to CHANGE that, contradict what the language of his original post implies, it's fine, but, until then, call a spade a spade -- Spider-Ock knocked Wolverine out for at least a few seconds, a duration any boxing ref in the world would award a formal KO for.

Proof is that Spider-Ock has time to address the X-Men's concerns over the Giant Spider, watch it go down, explain what occurred and why he knows this, and briefly discuss why there's suddenly a girl there in the Giant Spider's place, before Wolverine, covered with residual soot from that Giant Spider crashing to the ground, resumes his attack.

Here, re-examine a fuller version of that scene:

Ok. So, even though I don't think Ock would have seen that as a straight up victory, I'll give you that it qualifies for the purposes of this thread.

So then, taking that into consideration, what is the one common thread between all of your modern day scans? Wolverine was taken off guard. Either by Spider-man not fighting like himself, a surprise attack from Daredevil, or straight out being blindsided by Captain America, Otto, and Namor, surprise was a big factor in all of those shots working.

There are no surprises in a headbutt contest, and unlike in all of your scans, Spider-man has to overcome the fact that each of his attacks is a direct assault on his own skull. In short, this whole concept is designed to give Wolverine the edge against Spider-man.

1) His adamantium skull absorbs damage better than Spider-man's superhuman skull, and Spider-man's failed to overcome it with brute force before.
2) He has the harder skull, dealing more damage offensively and defensively.
3) His healing factor has healed liquified organs in the space between blows before, meaning Spider-man has to "beat" him multiple times before he actually makes him fall.
4) There are no surprises, no tricks, no damage avoidance, just skull vs skull.

In short, there's still no way to give this to Spider-man, it's just not his kind of match.

Originally posted by Ize19
I'm sorry, you're just wrong. Zoom in on the scans DarkSaint posted, you can see all three claws, every time. So your position is, Wolverine is the single greatest unconscious fighter of all time, and would have beaten Thor, Hercules, or the Thing, in his sleep, if they tried the Hulk's tactic? Lol. You can see his expression change, the angle of his shots change, you see motion lines every time he throws a slash, but it's all due to puppet master WWH? This is called denial..

No, someone else in Spider-Man's body took him off guard, and incapacitated him temporarily. He was fine, and able to turn the tables, within moments. Actually, Spider-Man has done just that, in the cemetery, and not only did he not knock him out, he couldn't get him to stop smiling.

Thanks, I'd appreciate it. Yeah, it's all just speculation, but both common sense and the evidence happen to agree here, and it seems pretty clear cut. Still, this has been fun, thanks.

i looked at the scans again. you cant see the third claw it seems like its stuck inside hulks arm. i am just saying hulk was punching him with incredible force, to the point the beaten up wolverine didnt control his arms already and his body is twisting with the blow making his arms wave from side to side and yes slash hulk. his eyes are closed and he is simply out. we see the direction of that slash going with the punch. before that, his claws on both arms are stuck inside hulks arm.

with spiderman powers you forgot to add. and it was enough to take him out for a forum KO.

i was mistaken. i was reffering to the cemetery fight, only thing is, my memory betrayed me and i remembered that it was wolverine pummeling spiderman with his fists. in this case my main evidence does not exist and i myself begin to question my initial point. after all i remembered that wolverine couldnt take him out with multiple adamantium punches raining on spiderman. without that feat, i do believe spiderman can KO wolvy but question is, will he be knocked out first. without that feat i think spiderman actually might get knocked out first.

Originally posted by Dareangel
i looked at the scans again. you cant see the third claw it seems like its stuck inside hulks arm. i am just saying hulk was punching him with incredible force, to the point the beaten up wolverine didnt control his arms already and his body is twisting with the blow making his arms wave from side to side and yes slash hulk. his eyes are closed and he is simply out. we see the direction of that slash going with the punch. before that, his claws on both arms are stuck inside hulks arm.

http://imgur.com/Kfpskb9
http://imgur.com/TGTIrby
http://imgur.com/2VMblQk

Okay, so there are the panels in question, zoomed in. There are three claws each time, and the only time one of them is slightly obscured, is the panel that comes after both claws are shown clearly free and completely away from Hulk's body. His slashing claws were never stuck, he was still conscious, until the scan explicitly shows us the moment that he loses consciousness.

with spiderman powers you forgot to add. and it was enough to take him out for a forum KO.

Look at my previous post above, I address this there.

i was mistaken. i was reffering to the cemetery fight, only thing is, my memory betrayed me and i remembered that it was wolverine pummeling spiderman with his fists. in this case my main evidence does not exist and i myself begin to question my initial point. after all i remembered that wolverine couldnt take him out with multiple adamantium punches raining on spiderman. without that feat, i do believe spiderman can KO wolvy but question is, will he be knocked out first. without that feat i think spiderman actually might get knocked out first.

Hey, faulty memories happen, thanks for letting me know. I agree, Peter can eventually get a brute force knockout given enough time, but when he keeps damaging himself as well, he loses the durability contest, hands down.

Wait, so this entire thread is based on a faulty premise, which was debunked on page 1????

Originally posted by Ize19
http://imgur.com/Kfpskb9
http://imgur.com/TGTIrby
http://imgur.com/2VMblQk

Okay, so there are the panels in question, zoomed in. There are three claws each time, and the only time one of them is slightly obscured, is the panel that comes after both claws are shown clearly free and completely away from Hulk's body. His slashing claws were never stuck, he was still conscious, until the scan explicitly shows us the moment that he loses consciousness.

you can only see small part of the claw as it wasnt the entire third claw inside his arm. it was most of that claw inside of his arm. you can clearly see most of the claw is unseen.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait, so this entire thread is based on a faulty premise, which was debunked on page 1????

damn. i just looked at the first page and there was a scan of spidy pummeling wolvy in that fight. for some odd reason i was sure it was wolverine pummeling him... damn... memory owned me.

Originally posted by Dareangel
you can only see small part of the claw as it wasnt the entire third claw inside his arm. it was most of that claw inside of his arm. you can clearly see most of the claw is unseen.

Only in the third panel, and that takes place after both claws would have been "feed" in your scenario. You're wrong, man. Just acknowledge.

How the **** could this reach 11 pages?

Originally posted by Ize19
Only in the third panel, and that takes place after both claws would have been "feed" in your scenario. You're wrong, man. Just acknowledge.

if you look at the scans you can clearly zoom in and see the third claw is inside around 90% of it. its logical since it will be hard to get only 1 claw stuck horizontal inside an object after a slash.

Originally posted by Dareangel
if you look at the scans you can clearly zoom in and see the third claw is inside around 90% of it. its logical since it will be hard to get only 1 claw stuck horizontal inside an object after a slash.

You can see the entire claw in the first two scans, no problem whatsoever. I am seriously starting to doubt your honesty here. I've done everything I can to make it as clear as I can, I am officially done with this topic. If you ever make the claim that WWH knocked him out with two punches again, I will post the scans, whole and zoomed in, and leave it at that. No one else will see it your way, I guarantee it.

Least of all me, when I pointed this out ages ago. Moreover, his hands are still bunched into fists - only later does he relax, and go limp.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Least of all me, when I pointed this out ages ago. Moreover, his hands are still bunched into fists - only later does he relax, and go limp.

Bolding this part for Dare... even though his blinders will surely prevent him from seeing it.

~~~~~

WWH event happened ten years ago. This is the first time I witness such idiocy since Starscream. And even Starscream knew when to admit he was wrong.

Then again, what can you expect after a dozen or so headbutt threads...

Originally posted by Ize19
You can see the entire claw in the first two scans, no problem whatsoever. I am seriously starting to doubt your honesty here. I've done everything I can to make it as clear as I can, I am officially done with this topic. If you ever make the claim that WWH knocked him out with two punches again, I will post the scans, whole and zoomed in, and leave it at that. No one else will see it your way, I guarantee it.

i am looking at the scans again and its the same picture. you see the third claw missing and hidden. you have a glimps of that claw because its not the entire claw stuck inside the arm but a good portion of it does. when you slash horizontal its hard to get the entire claw stuck straight up in line while the others arent.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
his hands are still bunched into fists -

when a person is getting knocked out during a fight, he can still remain with his fists closed its a reflex.
YouTube video

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Bolding this part for Dare... even though his blinders will surely prevent him from seeing it.

~~~~~

WWH event happened ten years ago. This is the first time I witness such idiocy since Starscream. And even Starscream knew when to admit he was wrong.

Then again, what can you expect after a dozen or so headbutt threads...

Neither does making sock accounts and spamming same threads over and over again...