They are calculations that insert as much, yes
Even without all the science-cy, fan made stuff, dispersing the matter of a 400 meter ship, until nothing is left, - like the micro black hole Kyp moved - is still insane. Far above moving a mountain, or Sidious thinking - not actually doing, he can crack some foundation.
I'll reply to Nova's entire scribe, though.
Too bad the mountain wasn't an ordinary mountain; it was Force-sensitive and literally resisted Yoda's efforts, and there were others trying to interfere as well, yet Yoda still prevailed. So Yoda's feat is well above Luke's mountain feat, which means he can also replicate Luke's black hole feat according to you.
The point is that Sidious doesn't have any max-effort showings to compare to Kyp's black hole feat. Which you completely missed. Science class? Forget it. You never went to English class. You wouldn't be able to comprehend your science teacher.
You're only comparing the outcome of the showings - the black hole and the palace cracking. Obviously the black hole is far better. But you've failed to take anything else into account; namely, the effort used in accomplishing the feats. Without any understanding of context, you have no business comparing feats.
Case in point here is that Sidious' effortless showings are far beyond any of Kyp's showings when using the same level of effort (little to none). Hence, Palpatine is stronger. We can then safely deduce that if Sidious went all-out, with max effort, then he could easily replicate Kyp's feat.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Too bad the mountain wasn't an ordinary mountain; it was Force-sensitive and literally resisted Yoda's efforts, and the point is that Sidious doesn't have any max-effort showings to compare to Kyp's black hole feat. Which you completely missed. Science class? Forget it. You never went to English class. You wouldn't be able to comprehend your science teacher.You're only comparing the outcome of the showings - the black hole and the palace cracking. Obviously the black hole is far better. But you've failed to take anything else into account; namely, the effort used in accomplishing the feats.
Case in point here is that Sidious' effortless showing is far beyond any of Kyp's showings when using the same level of effort. We can safely deduce that if Sidious went all-out, max effort, then he could easily replicate Kyp's feat.
And besides didn't wollfmyth post text indicating that what yoda did to the mountain was at max effort?
I never mentioned effort for Yoda. I was mentioning effort for Sidious... Jesus Christ.
Besides, the missile in Y: DR was "coming down too hard and too fast". It was basically physically impossible to stop it completely, which is why Yoda had to redirect it (it was also on a DS nexus). Nowhere does it say Yoda couldn't stop the missile under normal circumstances, only that it was too late to stop the missile then and that it had to be redirected rather than outright halted.
Also, are we given specifications for the missile? I'd assume it was enormous, given the size of the transports that Yoda's moved in OCW with less than than max effort.
TBH arguing whether or not how much effort was done is irrelevant unless you think Yoda would put a billion times more energy than what he did to say, stop the missile. The difference between that and stopping a micro black hole which have the mass of a tenth of a Moon is billions, if not trillions of times. Though I do think Yoda>Kyp.
Well, kbro just used the "different authors" argument on CV so I'd expect him to be consistent and hold to that line of thought here. Yoda struggles with plenty of lesser feats depending on the author (that pillar in AotC, for instance). So if you're gonna use those versions of Yoda for Kyp being Yoda-level, then be my guest. I'm arguing for him at his absolute best, which is only fair given we're using a one-time feat for Kyp. If we're taking Kyp's absolute best, why not do the same for Yoda?
Originally posted by SunRazer
I never mentioned effort for Yoda. I was mentioning effort for Sidious... Jesus Christ.Besides, the missile in Y: DR was "coming down too hard and too fast". It was basically physically impossible to stop it completely, which is why Yoda had to redirect it (it was also on a DS nexus). Nowhere does it say Yoda couldn't stop the missile under normal circumstances, only that it was too late to stop the missile then and that it had to be redirected rather than outright halted.
Also, are we given specifications for the missile? I'd assume it was enormous, given the size of the transports that Yoda's moved in OCW with less than than max effort.
2. The quote said that even with optimal conditions("perfect peace, unlimited time) yoda would have no hope of stopping that missle, I'll look for it
3. Different mediums
Anyway, for the mountain feat the text and yoda's own statements seem to suggest that yoda was indeed using maximum or near maximum effort for the mountain showing
2/3. If so, then again your argument of "different mediums" or "different authors" applies here. We're using the absolute best for Kyp, so we have to do the same for Yoda. Because otherwise I'm content to sit back on Luke putting dying OT Yoda above Kyp in raw power. Or heck, Ben Kenobi. But we know that's not the case because the times have changed. OT Yoda and Obi-Wan aren't that great anymore (in Legends).
4. Sure, but it's an insane feat all the same. Better than Luke's "mountain-sized structure" busting that DC was mentioning earlier as a comparison for how good Kyp's singularity feat was.
Originally posted by SunRazer
2/3. If so, then again your argument of "different mediums" or "different authors" applies here. We're using the absolute best for Kyp, so we have to do the same for Yoda. Because otherwise I'm content to sit back on Luke putting dying OT Yoda above Kyp in raw power. Or heck, Ben Kenobi. But we know that's not the case because the times have changed. OT Yoda and Obi-Wan aren't that great anymore (in Legends).4. Sure, but it's an insane feat all the same. Better than Luke's "mountain-sized structure" busting that DC was mentioning earlier as a comparison for how good Kyp's singularity feat was.
BTW, mind posting the quote you're using for scaling here?
As for my views, Accolades are number 1 for me with power-scaling a close second. So my list for the Strongest Sith would be something like this:
1. Palpatine
2. Krayt Reborn
3.Taalon Post pool dip.
4. Caedus
5. Knightfall Vader
6. Plagueis
7. RO2 Sith
8. Bane
9. SWTOR Vitiate/Valkorion
10. Darth Malak
11. Darth Revan
12. Exar Kun
13. Post-Nathema Vitiate
14. Marka Ragnos
15.Tulak Hord
16.Freedon Nadd
17.Naga Sadow
18.Ludo Kressh
19.Ajunta Pall
20.Karness Muur
Not sure where to rank Kyp Durron possessed by Kun, he does have a statement that potentially places him above Palpatine.
Originally posted by The Merchant
As for my views, Accolades are number 1 for me with power-scaling a close second. So my list for the Strongest Sith would be something like this:1. Palpatine
2. Krayt Reborn
3.Taalon Post pool dip.
4. Caedus
5. Knightfall Vader
6. Plagueis
7. RO2 Sith
8. Bane
9. SWTOR Vitiate/Valkorion
10. Darth Malak
11. Darth Revan
12. Exar Kun
13. Post-Nathema Vitiate
14. Marka Ragnos
15.Tulak Hord
16.Freedon Nadd
17.Naga Sadow
18.Ludo Kressh
19.Ajunta Pall
20.Karness MuurNot sure where to rank Kyp Durron possessed by Kun, he does have a statement that potentially places him above Palpatine.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. There's a difference between using their absolute best for feats and using their absolute best for scaling you yourself believe is outdated. And using feats yoda has multiple times showcased absolute bests/near absolute bests well below kyp's demonstrated absolute best.
2. Was luke using full power/effort though?BTW, mind posting the quote you're using for scaling here?
1. Yoda's best in Legends relies on scaling as an equal to Sidious, not on feats. They're actually somewhat underwhelming for a character of his stature. But then again, you can always go for Rivi-Anu scaling. 🙂
2. Nope, but I factored that in. Yoda's actual feat is far beyond Luke's in terms of the circumstances he had to put up with (ie. fighting against gravity as opposed to working with it, having various obstructions to Yoda's power vs no obstructions to Luke's power), so it's only natural for the effort to make up most of the difference.
The only problem is that we have no way of measuring how much the mountain and those inhibitor guys were actually obstructing Yoda's powers, so we can't actually have a conclusive comparison on the overall quality of the showings (I rescind my earlier claims that Yoda's feat is outright better). I suppose we can, for lack of accurate measuring tools, approximate that Yoda and Luke's feats are equal. In that case, provided that the singularities that Kyp and Luke manipulated were of equal potency (I recall a thread being made against that notion), then I'll concede on Kyp being loosely Yoda-level in canon on a TK feats-only basis.
Though I imagine DC was referring to being Legends Yoda-level, and if we're taking him at his best there, then he should still be somewhat more powerful in a combat-relevant sense. Kyp could well have more raw power, though, as I said earlier.
3. The one about Kyp being the strongest Force presence (ie. raw power) that Luke's known since ESB Yoda and old Ben. This is back when OT Yoda and Obi-Wan were stronger than Vader and DE Luke, which is why the scaling doesn't work anymore.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Also wouldn't luke's quote only apply to a pre prime kyp?
Yeah, but it's raw power, so the growth wouldn't be by all that much. And it's also referring to a considerably post-prime Yoda who was basically just keeping himself alive on his Force energies. Obviously Yoda at his best would be far stronger as well.
Originally posted by SunRazer
You know, I'll never improve until you start telling me where I'm being stupid instead of just sitting on the sidelines throwing insults. 🙂Because that's pretty much all you end up doing every time you threaten to clean me up.
I'd try, but I can't even get to a computer. 🙁
1. Great, so when has rots sidious ever had a singularity reversing level tk feat?
2. Singularities>>>Star destroyers. And anyway there's nothing that stops rivi anu from just being an extradoniarily gifted prodigee who's potential was right below anyone with statements indicating greater raw power. An ahsoka tano on steroids
3. that doesn't mean yoda/ben have more raw power though. It just says kyp was the most powerful dude since them, not that he couldn't be more powerful than them
4. Or maybe kyp just has so much raw power/potential that he grew at a way faster rate than yoda declined