Ranking TOR characters

Started by Rockydonovang5 pages

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Razor was actually used as a freighter as well, lol. Malgus arrived late at the landing pad and still managed to deaccelerate and hold it back for some seconds, despite the full power of it's engines trying to break away from his grasp. Engines capables to accelerate at dozens and hundreds of G's.

So, you speculate about Kenobi growth but don't like when I do the same with Malgus? lol

[b]

No, it isn't. Obi Wan didn't even had to counter gravity. All he had to do was to stabilize the ship and navigate with the inertia. The fact is Obi Wan operated under one G, Malgus operated under several dozens or even a few hundreds of G's.

She destroyed it in single attack. She didn't attack the camp multiple times.

It's you who's speculating saying she did it on "certain length of time" when there's no evidence for that, actually, quite the contrary (Lana stating Vaylin could potentialy destroy a city). [/B]


1. I only brought up kenobi's growth because you claimed kenobi's showing was near his upper limit based on him showcasing strain he didn't showcase. And no, slowing down a freighter is not anywhere close to as impressive as what kenobi did.

2. Kenobi did have to counter gravity when landing it obviously. And no he didn't just stabilize the ship, he stabilized the ship, guided it and cloaked it at the same time

3. A single attack =/ a single force attack.

4. Vaylin has never came close to showing city wide capabilities. And Lanan being able to destroy a city doesn't have to be a one time attck which is the point. All we know is over some period of time vaylin managed to tear apart some ships

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. I only brought up kenobi's growth because you claimed kenobi's showing was near his upper limit based on him showcasing strain he didn't showcase. And no, slowing down a freighter is not anywhere close to as impressive as what kenobi did.

I said that because I was almost sure somewhere in Wild Space it was stated that Obi Wan "breathed heavily" or something like that after he finished his task.

Actually, slowing and holding back a freighter at full power. And it is physically better. Your denial can't change that.

2. Kenobi did have to counter gravity when landing it obviously. And no he didn't just stabilize the ship, he stabilized the ship, guided it and cloaked it at the same time

He floated the ship with the help of it's own inertia. Even his own POV as you posted admits he "floated a ship", he didn't propel it. Note that after Kenobi stabilized the ship Organa also assumed partial control of it. How he had to counter gravity when he landed it on a space station? Talking about gravity, Surik lifting the Ebon Hawk from the gravity well of Malachor V is far superior as well. 🙂

3. A single attack =/ a single force attack.

Baseless speculation. Someone who can easily tore through pieces of metal of the size of a small park can crush a ship or two.

4. Vaylin has never came close to showing city wide capabilities. And Lanan being able to destroy a city doesn't have to be a one time attck which is the point. All we know is over some period of time vaylin managed to tear apart some ships

Someone far inferior to her was said to be capable of levelling entire city blocks. Everything happens under "some period of time". Your assumption that it was "lenghty" is pure speculative, however. I accept the backtracking, though. 🙂

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
I said that because I was almost sure somewhere in Wild Space it was stated that Obi Wan "breathed heavily" or something like that after he finished his task.

Actually, slowing and holding back a freighter at full power. And it is physically better. Your denial can't change that.

He floated the ship with the help of it's own inertia. Even his own POV as you posted admits he "floated a ship", he didn't propel it. Note that after Kenobi stabilized the ship Organa also assumed partial control of it. How he had to counter gravity when he landed it on a space station? Talking about gravity, Surik lifting the Ebon Hawk from the gravity well of Malachor V is far superior as well. 🙂

Baseless speculation. Someone who can easily tore through pieces of metal of the size of a small park can crush a ship or two.

Someone far inferior to her was said to be capable of levelling entire city blocks. Everything happens under "some period of time". Your assumption that it was "lenghty" is pure speculative, however. I accept the backtracking, though. 🙂 [/B]


1. You might have a point if
A. Kenobi didn't do what he did for way longer
B. Kenobi wasn't also cloaking the shipr= and holding it together
C. If Malgus actually succeeded was cloaking it and did this for far longer than malgus with much less strain. And yes he had to counter gravity, otherwise the ship would crash.

I have no idea what you're bringing surik into this for

3. Please link what you're referring to. The closest I could find is her ripping a bunch of scraps of metal from a room not close to the size of a park and using them to make a hole in the room.

4. Yes everythign happens under some period of tme. but there's a difference between say marek pushing a tie fighter and what vaylin did. What marek did happened near instantly. We have no idea hwo long it took vaylin to destroy all those ships though there's no reason to think she did it instantly.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. You might have a point if
A. Kenobi didn't do what he did for way longer
B. Kenobi wasn't also cloaking the shipr= and holding it together
C. If Malgus actually succeeded was cloaking it and did this for far longer than malgus with much less strain. And yes he had to counter gravity, otherwise the ship would crash.

You're severely undersolding the ammount of time Malgus held the ship. He did it for so long his body started to getting soaked by the sweat.

He felt a tightness in his mind, the string of his power being drawn taut, stretching, stretching. He would not release the ship. Its thrusters began to whine. He held it, teeth gritted, sweat soaking his body, his breath a dry rattle through his respirator.

Source: Deceived

Unless you think Malgus gets soaked by doing 5 seconds of effort, it was actually significant ammount of seconds or even minutes that he held back the ship.

Obi Wan stabilized the ship, cancelling it's vibration through his TK. Nowhere it's stated the ship would've blown out if he released it. Obi Wan simply grasped the damaged ship with his TK and navegated through it's own inertia, as admited by Kenobi's own POV, until the space station. The forces at effect here are incomparable with what Malgus did.

I have no idea what you're bringing surik into this for

Just bringing a superior feat as well.

3. Please link what you're referring to. The closest I could find is her ripping a bunch of scraps of metal from a room not close to the size of a park and using them to make a hole in the room.

Here.

4. Yes everythign happens under some period of tme. but there's a difference between say marek pushing a tie fighter and what vaylin did. What marek did happened near instantly. We have no idea hwo long it took vaylin to destroy all those ships though there's no reason to think she did it instantly.

The casuality of the feat above suggests she can do it.

1. His body being soaked is because he's putting everything he has into it.

2. I never said the ship was about to blow out. The ship was damaged, him smoothing the ship's vibrations, and keeping the ship "frictionless" is him holding the ship together. Add in addition to that he was also "rendering it opaque" cloaking the ship. And while he was doing both those things he was also floating and slowing the descent of the ship.

And by the way, him slowing the ship's descent, even making it so that it was "barely moving" is kenobi working AGAINST gravity. Malgus trying to keep a ship from flying up is working WITH gravity

3. First Off vaylin didn't "casually do it". She clearly was strained to do what she did and it takes her several seconds to rip the metal. Additionally as we can see from when she's about to throw the metal. The metal she rips apart collectively isn't close to the size of a small park. Her needing several seconds of clear strain to perform a feat vastly below the one you're saying she did instantly makes no sense

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. His body being soaked is because he's putting everything he has into it.

It takes a while for a body to get soaked. 🙂 So, Malgus holds back the ship for significant ammount of time.

2. I never said the ship was about to blow out. The ship was damaged, him smoothing the ship's vibrations, and keeping the ship "frictionless" is him holding the ship together. Add in addition to that he was also "rendering it opaque" cloaking the ship. And while he was doing both those things he was also floating and slowing the descent of the ship.

And by the way, him slowing the ship's descent, even making it so that it was "barely moving" is kenobi working AGAINST gravity. Malgus trying to keep a ship from flying up is working WITH gravity

Malgus does have 1 G working on his favour, he does have several dozens or hundreds of G's working against him. lol Obi Wan was going to dock on a space port, he just deaccelerated the inertial impulse of the ship.

3. First Off vaylin didn't "casually do it". She clearly was strained to do what she did and it takes her several seconds to rip the metal. Additionally as we can see from when she's about to throw the metal. The metal she rips apart collectively isn't close to the size of a small park. Her needing several seconds of clear strain to perform a feat vastly below the one you're saying she did instantly makes no sense

There's no strain. lmao The chuncks of metal, individually, are certainly capable to be parts of shuttles. Collectively, they are around the size of the small green park from the gif, dude.

1.It doesn't take that long when you're putting everything you have into doing something. Anyway, I really have no interest in discussing the science of sweat. Him being soaked in sweat is meant to emphasize how much effort he was putting into pulling the ships.
2. Yea, don't really care about fancalcs though I shouldn't expect more from a tenebrous fan. I just brought it up because you were trying to diminish kenobi's showing on the basis of him not fighting gravity and malgus fighting gravity which is the opposite of what happened.

3. No, he didn't just do that. I don't know why you keep dancing around this. He
A. cloaked the ship
B. he kept the ship "frictionless" and "smoothed out" its damage
C.And while doing the above two he slowed its descent

4. Her concentrating and twisting her hands for about 7 seconds beforehand is clear strain. i'm not sure where you got this crap about her doing it casually.

And no, as is evident by looking at the pieces of metal when they're thrown at the park, they collectively make up only a fraction of that park. And no tearing part a few pieces of metal is<<<<<tearing apart multiple ships

Re: Ranking TOR characters

Originally posted by Azronger
Who do the following characters compare to the closest in sabers, Force, and all-out? Comparisons to the movie era would be best.

-Darth Nyriss

-novel Scourge

-prime Scourge

-Darth Thanaton

-Darth Baras

-Darth Jadus

-Darth Malgus

-Hope Satele Shan

-KotFE Satele Shan

-Foundry Revan

-SoR Revan

-KotFE Ch.1 Outlander

-KotET Ch.9 Outlander

-KotET Lana Beniko

-Senya

-Arcann

-chained Vaylin

-unchained Vaylin

-novel Vitiate (no amp)

-novel Vitiate (on Dromund Kaas)

-TOR Vitiate

-Valkorion's spirit

-prime Valkorion

Nyriss: Based on just her displayed power with lightning, I have her around Dooku level in the Force only.

Scourge: Not sure, maybe a little higher up there than Master Vrook. He's certainly inferior to the Exile, even after she was nerfed in the novel.

Scourge Prime: I have him around Dooku level.

Thanaton: Between Dooku and Vader, closer to Dooku.

Baras: Same as novel Scourge tbh.

Jadus: Closer to Vader

Malgus: Vader/Bane level

Satele (Hope): TCW Kenobi

Satele (KOFE): Equal to Darth Marr, whom I hold around TFU Vader level.

Foundry Revan: ROTJ Vader level

SoR Revan (time for the flak to start): In the little crack between Yoda and ROTS Sidious.

KOTFE Ch1 Outlander: TFU Vader level

KOTET Ch9 Outlander: About equal to LOTF Jaina

KOTET Lana: Not sure.

Senya: ROTS Kenobi level

Arcann: ROTJ Vader level, maybe a bit higher.

Chained Vaylin: A fair bit above Arcann

Unchained Vaylin: Plagueis level

Novel Vitiate w/o amp: </=ROTS Sidious level

Novel Vitiate on DK: >/=ROTS Sidious

ToR Vitiate: Same as Vitiate on DK

Valkorion's spirit: ROTJ Sidious level

Valkorion prime (more flak incoming, heheheh): >/= DE Sidious/GM Luke

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
It's on the Cipher Nine storyline, when I find it I'll send it to you.

Alright

LMFAO. HoT doesn't need to be Dooku level to correctly rate Malgus' form, the same way a coach doesn't need to be better than his players to avail them. He just need to be capacitated for that - and HoT is.

What a spectacular way to miss the point. I brought up Dooku > HoT because Malgus' form is flawless in the HoT's opinion. In reality, no duelist is flawless, and the best Malgus gets out of that quote is being on a level with HoT in terms of raw skill - which doesn't propel him to Dooku-level.

His "battlefields feats" are clearly linked with his capacity as a "exemplary warrior".

Evidently, Malgus' talents in personal combat are included in the quote. Quote about Windu? And even if there's one, we know from a significant number of sources that Yoda > Windu. Unless you can provide the same for Malgus (an exception to the rule that was estabilished by Sidious' accolades) your counter exemple(?) does not have validity.

You conveniently ignored the first definition of the quote: "a hostile encounter or engagement between opposing military forces" and jumped straight to the one which favored his personal combat abilities without any explanation or elaboration on why that is what the quote is referring to.

If you want Sidious' opinion on the matter, then here:

"Even though he failed to live up to his full potential, there was much pleasure in transforming Anakin Skywalker from a bright-eyed, tousle-headed youth into the greatest Jedi killer of all time."

"Lord Vader, your skills are unmatched by any Sith before you."

Clearly, if Malgus' accolade was referring to his personal combat abilities, Sidious would not make such contradictory judgements about Vader. Instead, I think it refers to his abilities on the battlefield - and by that I mean the place what I, and most people I'd imagine, would immediately associate with the word - not personal combat but the clash of armies.

Malgus deaccelerating and holding back a freighter trying to take off is almost as good as Dooku's cruiser throwing, even on conservative estimates. After that Malgus received a huge power up that made someone who could compete with him to be one-shotted. And then, he had more than a decade of growth where his "understanding of the Force grew daily". Obi Wan had visible strain to "tk pilot" and cloak Organa's ship in space, so we know his limits aren't much above than that.

Good thing I wasn't going to bring up Dooku's cruiser tossing, then. Rather, let's look at Padawan Anakin Skywalker:

I'd say that's roughly equivalent to Malgus' feat. And yes, Malgus grew, but that's hardly an issue for Dooku, considering what his pawns can accomplish:

Ragdolling and one-shotting an Anakin significantly more powerful than the dreadnought-ragdoller? Saato, Trenox and Ventress are up to the task. Specifically focusing on Ventress, she is noted to be possibly the most powerful of Tyranus' acolytes, and she also has the best feat out of all of them:

Perhaps Tyranus' most powerful student was Asajj Ventress.

-Fact File 116

That's significantly beyond Malgus' ship feat, and even a highballed FE Malgus is at best on Ventress' level - I won't accept anytging higher with the feat you've currently presented. Now let's look at how Dooku handles Ventress with the Force:

He stood tall, imposing, and as Vos raced toward him, Dooku didn't flinch. He lowered his sword and extended his hand. Vos rose in the air and then Dooku shoved, sending the Jedi slamming into one of the pillars. The count turned, almost nonchalantly performing the same maneuver with Ventress. The wind was knocked out of her and she couldn't breathe. Stubbornly, using her hate the way she had taught Vos to do, she summoned energy to to push herself up to a kneeling position, still clutching her lightsaber.

Dooku's lip curled in a manner that might have been a smile or a snarl. Abruptly, Ventress found herself dangling in in the air as he whirled her around behind him and then threw her down like a spoiled child discarding a disliked toy.

The pain was excruciating, but Ventress remained conscious long enough to see that Dooku wasn't yet done. She could only watch helplessly as she slid, headfirst, into the unyielding stone of a meticulously carved bench. Then the world went white, and she knew nothing more.

-Dark Disciple

"Don't patronize me," Asajj said coldly.

Dooku looked around. "Or what?"

Her face went pale.

Dooku lifted that one finger, and this time he tapped it in the air, as if pushing a needle into a pincushion. Ventress crumpled to her knees. Her voice came out clotted with pain. "Please," she said. "Don't."

"It doesn't feel good, does it? Like sharp stones in your throat and chest." Dooku made another little patting motion, and Ventress slammed to the tile floor. "It's the blood vessels I hate," Dooku said. "The way they stretch inside like balloons about to pop."

"P-p-p-please..."

"But worse anything is the memories," he said, more softly still. "They crowed around, like flies on meat. Every despicable thing, every petty vice, every little act of spite." A cruel, strange quiet stretched out as Ventress panted on the stone floor. Rain ticked against the window glass, and the Count's voice went dark and far away. "All the things you should have stopped, but didn't, and nothing will ever be right again. And the things you've done," he whispered. "By the pitless stars, the things you've done..."

The comm on Dooku's desk beeped. He shook his head, like a man waking from a dream. "The Troxan delegation is at the door."

Ventress crawled to her feet. Her face was bruised and her cheeks were wet with tears. Both pretended not to notice.

-Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

Dooku would stomp Malgus in a Force battle, if the ship feat is the one you're using as the base for you powerscale. You'll have to present something better.

Ventress best TK feat other than throwing pre-prime Obi Wan around with circunstances is causing an avalanche and destroying parts of ceillings. Unless you think the lightsaber absorption multiplied Satele's powers, her feat is still mostly valid.

Yeah, not true (see above). Satele isn't coming close to that, and will be stomped by Ventress.

Perhaps her Maelstrom was focused on the guy that was just some inches away from impalling her, instead of focusing on the walls? The animation clearly shows the walls are on the very border of her Maelstrom and not close.

Vaylin didn't focus on anything; her attack was omnidirectional. And of you want to go that route, then how potent the attack was at the center is clearly unquantifiable. We're better off sticking with what we can measure.

KoTET Outlander is more powerful than the guy who dominated him before. Likely by a fair margin.

Yeah, and how powerful was he before when Arcann dominated him? Without establishing that, this is worthless.

With the rising flames, Senya finally witnessed the true carnage Vaylin had unleashed on the camp: dozens of Knights – bodies mutilated and mangled – had been tossed haphazardly amongst the scattered wreckage of ships and shuttles torn asunder. The full breadth of the slaughter sent a chill down her back; grim evidence of the horrors her daughter was capable of.

That's not ship busting, but a good feat nonetheless.

This "they were caught off guard!!11" meme is bizarre! They are staring at a hysterical and unstable woman who happen to be immensely powerful (for their standards).

Arcann and Senya were incapacitated by around thirty seconds - you can clearly see their bodies on the floor when the Outlander's resisting the Maelstrom. That's an undeniable one-shot. Unless you can prove the Dark Side playthrough is canon, your observation about Theron and Lana is utter irrelevant, since they were knocked out as well.

The canon path for TOR hasn't been established so I don't need to prove anything. As it stands, Vaylin's attack failed to harm a fodder tier Force user and a non-Force sensitive in a significant way. Unless you want to suggest Arcann is on Theron and Lana's level, I think it's best to just assume his Force defenses weren't active, and thus, this can't be used as an accurate measurement of Vaylin's capabilities.

Cracking stone is still her best feat 👆

I don't mind your PT wank but you simply refuse to admit that some TOR characters can hold their own against PT powerhouses.

No, I don't, and you'd better not start bringing out the bias card. If you don't want to debate me, don't. But don't start calling biased if a make an argument in favor of a PT character.

Originally posted by Azronger
Yeah, and how powerful was he before when Arcann dominated him? Without establishing that, this is worthless.
Act III HoT resists weakened Vitiate's TK on a dark side nexus. Vitiate, after their battle is further weakened (meaning he is struck down and exhausted), brings down a huge portion of the temple. Mid-Kotfe Outlander > Act III HoT. Arcann outright ragdolls Mid-Kotfe Outlander.

How did ankin go from running right through ocw ventress's attack to getting ragdolled by her inferiors?

FE Malgus ~ Ventress at best? Tf?

Originally posted by Azronger
What a spectacular way to miss the point. I brought up Dooku > HoT because Malgus' form is flawless in the HoT's opinion.

Who's a fully trained battlemaster and, as such, should be a reputable source of analysis of someone's lightsaber form.

In reality, no duelist is flawless

HoT didn't said that. He said his form was flawless.

and the best Malgus gets out of that quote is being on a level with HoT in terms of raw skill - which doesn't propel him to Dooku-level.

This is one of the worst logical leaps I've ever seen in my life. What does HoT skills have to do with Malgus'? lol

You conveniently ignored the first definition of the quote: "a hostile encounter or engagement between opposing military forces" and jumped straight to the one which favored his personal combat abilities without any explanation or elaboration on why that is what the quote is referring to.

You conveniently ignored what I typed, dude. A battle is defined as a contention of two or more people in opposing sides, which naturally defines personal duels as a "battle" as well. I highlighted that to show you his personal combat prowess is included in the quote. Anyway, "personal duels" aren't the only way to gauge someone's skills, Malgus could've fought a group of less skilled but more numerous opponents that would, in the grand scheme of things, be equivalent as if he had fought a single, more formidable individual.

If you want Sidious' opinion on the matter, then here:

"Even though he failed to live up to his full potential, there was much pleasure in transforming Anakin Skywalker from a bright-eyed, tousle-headed youth into the greatest Jedi killer of all time."

"Lord Vader, your skills are unmatched by any Sith before you."

That quote about Vader happens during DE, after the Book the Sith was compiled by Sidious. In any way it invalidates Sidious' analysis of Malgus' in comparison with characters like Maul and Dooku.

Clearly, if Malgus' accolade was referring to his personal combat abilities, Sidious would not make such contradictory judgements about Vader.
.

Sidious never did contradict himself there as Vader's exempt of the accolades from BoS, as it was compiled 3 years after RotS. Characters like Dooku and Maul aren't, however.

Instead, I think it refers to his abilities on the battlefield - and by that I mean the place what I, and most people I'd imagine, would immediately associate with the word - not personal combat but the clash of armies.

Adressed above.

Good thing I wasn't going to bring up Dooku's cruiser tossing, then. Rather, let's look at Padawan Anakin Skywalker:

This feat is significantly inferior to both Dooku's cruiser throwing and Malgus' TK feat. I did the calculations and Anakin changing the angular momentum of an atmospheric dreadnought is roughly 1/4 of the forces Malgus manipulated (around 16k tons for Anakin against around 60k tons for Malgus) and also significantly inferior to Dooku's as well (estimated as around 80k on average, converted from the work of a force)

I'd say that's roughly equivalent to Malgus' feat. And yes, Malgus grew, but that's hardly an issue for Dooku, considering what his pawns can accomplish:

It isn't as explained above.

Ragdolling and one-shotting an Anakin significantly more powerful than the dreadnought-ragdoller? Saato, Trenox and Ventress are up to the task. Specifically focusing on Ventress, she is noted to be possibly the most powerful of Tyranus' acolytes, and she also has the best feat out of all of them:

She didn't ragdoll Anakin in the last panel. She force pushed him and he lost his saber but Anakin is completely conscious and aware of what's happening and isn't in any way disabled.

Perhaps Tyranus' most powerful student was Asajj Ventress.

-Fact File 116

Going strictly by the info you provided it seems the other acolytes did better than her. lol The quote above isn't even deterministic by the way.

That's significantly beyond Malgus' ship feat, and even a highballed FE Malgus is at best on Ventress' level - I won't accept anytging higher with the feat you've currently presented.

Ventress, in a bout of rage, force chokes Anakin and Obi Wan for three seconds, for no consequence other than her spent powers.

Now let's look at how Dooku handles Ventress with the Force:

A well known feat.

Dooku would stomp Malgus in a Force battle, if the ship feat is the one you're using as the base for you powerscale. You'll have to present something better.

No, he wouldn't, as explained above.

Vaylin didn't focus on anything; her attack was omnidirectional. And of you want to go that route, then how potent the attack was at the center is clearly unquantifiable. We're better off sticking with what we can measure.

The attack on the center was powerful enough to literally one-shot Arcann and Senya. Since it was omnidirectional, she could've most likely one-shotted a collective of people of similar power, were they to have been there.

Yeah, and how powerful was he before when Arcann dominated him? Without establishing that, this is worthless.

More powerful than the iteration that withstood Vitiate's TK on DS nexus, whose a significantly weakened version could bring down the inner sanctum of the temple.

That's not ship busting, but a good feat nonetheless.

Several ships were torn to pieces while she most likely directed her atention at the knights trying to subdue her. It's ship busting.

The canon path for TOR hasn't been established so I don't need to prove anything. As it stands, Vaylin's attack failed to harm a fodder tier Force user and a non-Force sensitive in a significant way.

A most faulty logic again. Vailyn incapacitating Arcann and Senya for around 30 seconds is a proof she's capable of that. You can't bring the DS playthrough to try to prove otherwise. Nothing that happens to Theron and Lana invalidates what Vailyn did to Arcann and Senya.

Unless you want to suggest Arcann is on Theron and Lana's level, I think it's best to just assume his Force defenses weren't active, and thus, this can't be used as an accurate measurement of Vaylin's capabilities.

Faulty logic as adressed above.

No, I don't, and you'd better not start bringing out the bias card. If you don't want to debate me, don't. But don't start calling biased if a make an argument in favor of a PT character.

It's you who've questioned my character comparisons. Your logical leaps suggests otherwise.

Arguing Ventress is comparable to FE Malgus doesn't deserve a response, tbh.

Just laughing gifs. Like god, are we in 2014 again?

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Who's a fully trained battlemaster and, as such, should be a reputable source of analysis of someone's lightsaber form.

HoT didn't said that. He said his form was flawless.

I re-checked the quote and it does indeed say that, I was mistaken.

"Malgus's lightsaber form was flawless, but he let his anger and desperation cloud his fighting. He faltered, and I followed through."

However, that essentially renders the quote worthless if you want to prove his superiority to Dooku, since technical proficiency can only get you so far. Raw skill is important, more important than technical knowledge, I'd say.

Now, I do not know the context of that statement, but from what I understand, it was made after the HoT's battle with Malgus. And as it suggests, despite his technical perfection, he was still struck down by the HoT in lightsaber combat.

This is one of the worst logical leaps I've ever seen in my life. What does HoT skills have to do with Malgus'? lol

Probably the fact that the HoT defeated Malgus in a lightsaber duel... At least assuming my interpretation of the above quote is correct. Anyway, the hierarchy is clear: Dooku > HoT > Malgus as duelists.

You conveniently ignored what I typed, dude. A battle is defined as a contentention of two or more people in opposing sides, which naturally defines personal duels as a "battle" as well. I highlighted that to show you his personal combat prowess is included in the quote. Anyway, "personal duels" aren't the only way to gauge someone's skills, Malgus could've fought a group of less skilled but more numerous opponents that would, in the grand scheme of things, be equivalent as if he had fought a single, more formidable individual.

Um, no, I didn't ignore what you said. A "battle" can refer to a clash of armies as well as a duel between two adversaries. By "battlefield feats", Sidious may refer to the former or the latter, or both, but the thing here is that we don't know what he's referring to (I have my evidence it isn't referring to personal combat, though), so you can stop acting like personal combat is included in the quote.

And no, fighting multiple weak opponents isn't the same as fighting a single powerful one, nor is there any metric to quantify quantity in correlation to quality. The notion that the quote somehow proves Malgus > Dooku is nothing but hot air.

That quote about Vader happens during DE, after the Book the Sith was compiled by Sidious. In any way it invalidates Sidious' analysis of Malgus' in comparison with characters like Maul and Dooku.

Fair enough.

Sidious never did contradict himself there as Vader's exempt of the accolades from BoS, as it was compiled 3 years after RotS. Characters like Dooku and Maul aren't, however.

Um, no, Sidious' assessment of Vader's "unmatched" skills occurred during RotS. And since Malgus was before Vader's time, Sidious would obviously have included him in the quote as well. So it begs the question: Why would Sidious state Malgus' personal conbat feats have never been duplicated, if in his opinion, no Sith has Vader's skills? The answer would be that his quote about battlefield feats isn't referring to personal combat at all, but rather large scale engagements.

This feat is significantly inferior to both Dooku's cruiser throwing and Malgus' TK feat. I did the calculations and Anakin changing the angular momentum of an atmospheric dreadnought is roughly 1/4 of the forces Malgus manipulated (around 16k tons for Anakin against around 60k tons for Malgus) and also significantly inferior to Dooku's as well (estimated as around 80k on average, converted from the work of a force)

Show me the calcs. Also, Anakin didn't just change the angular momentum; he also moved it fast enough to intercept incoming missiles.

She didn't ragdoll Anakin in the last panel. She force pushed him and he lost his saber but Anakin is completely conscious and aware of what's happening and isn't in any way disabled.

I didn't say she ragdolled Anakin. Anyway, it's noted how Anakin required saving in that situation:

Ventress, Ahsoka and Anakin square off after being dropped into a deep pit. When Anakin drops his lightsaber, he's only saved by the intervention of his Padawan.

-The Clone Wars Visual Guide

Going strictly by the info you provided it seems the other acolytes did better than her. lol The quote above isn't even deterministic by the way.

I acknowledged that. However, the fact that it is suggested as possibility implies great parity between Ventress and the rest of the acolytes.

Ventress, in a bout of rage, force chokes Anakin and Obi Wan for three seconds, for no consequence other than her spent powers.

I've seen this "bout of rage" argument been brought up way too many times as a means to undermine Ventress' feat. There's no way to say how much this supposed "rage amp" boosted her abilitiess. The fact is she tore through their Force barriers and lifted them off their feet in a clear display of domination, only being interrupted by the shaking ship.

No, he wouldn't, as explained above.

Yeah, show me the calcs and we'll see. Even if you can prove Malgus' feat is better, I am hardly out of ammo even then. I can still slot in Kenobi and Maul into the scaling, but I'll wait for your response.

The attack on the center was powerful enough to literally one-shot Arcann and Senya. Since it was omnidirectional, she could've most likely one-shotted a collective of people of similar power, were they to have been there.

More powerful than the iteration that withstood Vitiate's TK on DS nexus, whose a significantly weakened version could bring down the inner sanctum of the temple.

Several ships were torn to pieces while she most likely directed her atention at the knights trying to subdue her. It's ship busting.

A most faulty logic again. Vailyn incapacitating Arcann and Senya for around 30 seconds is a proof she's capable of that. You can't bring the DS playthrough to try to prove otherwise. Nothing that happens to Theron and Lana invalidates what Vailyn did to Arcann and Senya.

Faulty logic as adressed above.

I'm more interested in Malgus vs Dooku currently than Vaylin or Arcann, so I'll leave this to another time.

It's you who've questioned my character comparisons. Your logical leaps suggests otherwise.

I misremembered a quote; that's it. And I questioned your character rankings because I was curious about your reasoning and wanted to stir some debate.

The HoT never beat Malgus in a lightsaber duel, lmfao. A team fought Malgus, not the Hero alone.

The quote you all are citing isn't canonical.

Is anybody going to realize Az only said Asajj is comparable/superior to FE Malgus if we rely on the ship-feat scaling thing? Like, sheesh people, I know you don't agree with the guy and try to downplay him at every turn, but at least fully grasp what he's saying first.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The HoT never beat Malgus in a lightsaber duel, lmfao. A team fought Malgus, not the Hero alone.

A team we know absolutely nothing about, save for the outcome. The HoT may very well have been the one to deal the finishing blow.

The quote you all are citing isn't canonical.

You mean to say it's fake or...?

Then everyone is going to call him stupid for other reasons.

Skywalker can't be scaled off of - his potential is literally on par with the Father. Given his power fluctuates given the circumstance, enviromental and emotional, it's impossible to just stable a date on his power like you can for characters like Kenobi.

Originally posted by Azronger
A team we know absolutely nothing about, save for the outcome. The HoT
You mean to say it's fake or...?

Why are you debating shit when you have no clue what it's even about?

No, it's one of four different quotes. All the Pub protags get their own quote of beating Malgus.

Everyone quotes the Hero's but forgets the Barsen'thor, the Smuggler, and the Trooper have ones too.

---

We know the quote is BS given Malgus is still alive. He most likely fell down a shaft, perhaps due to a Rakatan-grade bomb.

Hell, for all we know, he might not have even been defeated by the team - just overstepped like Maul vs Kanan and took a massive L.