How the hell can Superman beat Silver Surfer?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer didn't shoot a black hole out of his hand, his action was to release a butt load of energy. The formation of the blackhole was a secondary effect of that energy discharge.

side effect is an effect, whether therapeutic or adverse, that is secondary to the one intended;

If I shoot you in the head, my intent isn't defined as just wanting to have the bullet leave the gun, and then define it hitting you in the head is a 'side effect'.

This is one of the stupidest shits I've heard goob, what is wrong with you today?

Is your ego that big that you're willing to go full retarded?

Originally posted by Philosophía
Surfer's intent was to use his energy discharge to create a black hole, not to shoot energy and whatever happens happens. His intent is defined as wanting to create a black hole. That is, by definition, not a side-effect. A side effect would be if it wasn't what he wanted to do.

If I shoot you in the head, my intent isn't defined as just wanting to have the bullet leave the gun, and then define it hitting you in the head is a 'side effect'.

This is one of the stupidest shits I've heard goob, what is wrong with you today?

Is your ego that big that you're willing to go full retarded?

No one's saying it's a side effect because it wasn't intended, they're saying it's a side effect because of the roundabout way Surfer did it. He didn't just create a blackhole, he released an energy discharge that resulted in a blackhole.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And in my example, the doctor's intent is to cause the person to lose weight but the weightloss is still a side effect of the medication.

No one's saying it's a side effect because it wasn't intended, they're saying it's a side effect because of the roundabout way Surfer did it. He didn't just create a blackhole, he released an energy discharge that resulted in a blackhole.

I've said this many times, but this time I mean it - I can't believe you're not getting this.

Did you take any weight loss pills recently?

Originally posted by Philosophía
The weight loss isn't a side effect of the medication - if the medication is meant to make him lose weight, and that's what the intention is when taking it, it's a direct effect. A side effect is if it would also make him retarded, or give him cancer.

I've said this many times, but this time I mean it - I can't believe you're not getting this.

Did you take any weight loss pills recently?

The blackhole was formed because X amount of energy released=blackhold regardless of whether or not a blackhole is desired. The fact that WANTED that effect to happen doesn't change the fact that it's formation was a side effect of X amount of energy being released.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Whether or not he did it on purpose doesn't take away from the feat. If he can unleash that much energy, then he can unleash that much energy. That's like trying to downplay a feat where Supes lifts something by saying that he intended to lift it. It would actually be more damning if he DIDN'T mean to do such a thing. Like the time he evolved a planet billion years in moments by trying to put all his energy into healing the planet. Him doing that on accident doesn't mean that he could do such a thing and actually control the process.

It being intentional doesn't take away from the fact that the large black hole was a side effect of his energy discharge. He wanted to release that much energy... and he did it successfully.

When Surfer can actually beat someone worth shit with his blasts, then maybe he can at least hurt Superman with his blasts.

Originally posted by darthgoober
As I said, the primary intended purpose of the medication in my example is to treat depression and weightloss is listed as a side effect. Therefor the patients resulting weightloss is still a side effect of the medication. You can in fact, intentionally use side effects.

side effect is an effect, whether therapeutic or adverse, that is secondary to the one intended;

What Surfer intended is to create a blackhole. There's nothing secondary about it.

Should we get a mod to rule on this stupid thing you can't understand?

Originally posted by darthgoober
The blackhole was formed because X amount of energy released=blackhold regardless of whether or not a blackhole is desired. The fact that WANTED that effect to happen doesn't change the fact that it's formation was a side effect of X amount of energy being released.

If I splash water on my face with the intent to clean it, my face being clean isn't the side effect.

How many example must I give you before you get it?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who gives a shit? Some random seekers tanked the blast and flew out of the black hole with no issues.

When Surfer can actually beat someone worth shit with his blasts, then maybe he can at least hurt Superman with his blasts.

Also, you should know by now that forum standards aren't your's to dictate. Feats do in fact matter on this forum regardless of your desire to dismiss them, if you don't like then take it up with those who're actually in charge.

Surfer can't lose.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Side effect is defined as secondary to the primary intent. If the intent of the action is to reduce depression [or to create a blackhole, or to punch you in the face], then reducing depression is the direct effect [or creating a black hole, or getting your face punched]. If the intent of my action isn't to have the patient lose weight [or having your girlfriend cry], it's called a side effect.

side effect is an effect, whether therapeutic or adverse, that is [b]secondary to the one intended;

What Surfer intended is to create a blackhole. There's nothing secondary about it.

Should we get a mod to rule on this stupid thing you can't understand?

It's not a side effect, and you don't know what that word means.

If I splash water on my face with the intent to clean it, my face being clean isn't the side effect.

How many example must I give you before you get it? [/B]

Tell me this though, if you don't like the phrase "side effect" being used then what would you suggest to describe creating the black hole as the byproduct of an energy discharge? Hey there we go, will byproduct make you happy? What about "after effect"? Because simply saying that he created a blackhole makes it sound as though he just shot a blackhole out of his hands which doesn't reflect accurately upon the feat and if there's not a phrase that's actually more fitting than side effect then side affect is as good a description as any and there's no reason to avoid using it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
He defeated Morg w/Waters of Life with an energy blast.

Morg wasn't with WOL amp. Even Terrax fought Morg for several pages after his resurrection.

Morg is less powerful than Surfer and even then he had to go all out and Morg unleashing his own power to beat him.

That's one win out of what, two thousand comics Surfer appeared in?

He couldn't even beat Thing with his energy blasts just recently.

Also, you should know by now that forum standards aren't your's to dictate. Feats do in fact matter on this forum regardless of your desire to dismiss them, if you don't like then take it up with those who're actually in charge.

I'm not dismissing anything. I'm just showing them in proportion to the other characters capabilities.

Surfer creating black holes is worth less than nothing when you know it can't take out cannon fodder seekers.

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer can't lose.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey if you want to try to get a mod to rule on the semantics at play then feel free to do so.

Tell me this though, if you don't like the phrase "side effect" being used then what would you suggest to describe creating the black hole as the byproduct of an energy discharge? Hey there we go, will byproduct make you happy? What about "after effect"? Because simply saying that he created a blackhole makes it sound as though he just shot a blackhole out of his hands which doesn't reflect accurately upon the feat and if there's not a phrase that's actually more fitting than side effect then side affect is as good a description as any and there's no reason to avoid using it.

Saying he created a blackhole isn't 'like saying he shot one out of his hand', anymore than saying Firestorm creating salt means 'he shot salt out of his hand'. Jesus. F*cking. Christ. Goober.

This is all just splitting hairs but a side effect can also be defined as just a secondary effect, without discussing intention.

Surfer didn't handcraft a black hole or whatever, he released an energy discharge big enough to create a black hole as a side effect of being discharged

Obviously the black hole creation was the secondary effect of Surfer's action, given that the massive energy blast was the primary effect. It's worth specifying, because it makes the feat more impressive, given that he both casually and indirectly created the black hole.

Insisting that it comes down to intention is just cherry picking definitions of side effect.

Originally posted by Philosophía
It's not that I don't like it - it's that it's wrong. The fact that we had a whole page of discussion about this is quite tragic. You could have went 'you're right, it's not the best way to describe it' and that would be that, but you're unable to have a discussion where you admit you're wrong, making this rather sad.

Saying he created a blackhole isn't 'like saying he shot one out of his hand', anymore than saying Firestorm creating salt means 'he shot salt out of his hand'. Jesus. F*cking. Christ. Goober.

Originally posted by Smurph
Obviously the black hole creation was the secondary effect of Surfer's action, given that the massive energy blast was the primary effect.

Originally posted by Smurph
Insisting that it comes down to intention is just cherry picking definitions of side effect.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/side--effect

any effect of a drug, chemical, or other medicine that is in addition to its intended effect

: a result of an action that is not expected or intended

an unpleasant effect of a drug that happens in addition to the main effect:

This is how a black hole is created by a side effect and actually defeats someone..

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh right, GLs have never created black holes by sheer blasting.

A random Darkstar and a random GL create a black hole and actually kill Krona in his entropy form.

Heh, Surfer wishes he could be as powerful as GL eh?

Originally posted by darthgoober
It's not "wrong" unless there's a more fitting way to describe it. If there's not, then there's nothing wrong with the description.

Or are you going to feign you didn't just say something incredibly stupid?

Originally posted by Smurph
This is all just splitting hairs but a side effect can also be defined as just a secondary effect, without discussing intention.

Surfer didn't handcraft a black hole or whatever, he released an energy discharge big enough to create a black hole as a side effect of being discharged

Obviously the black hole creation was the secondary effect of Surfer's action, given that the massive energy blast was the primary effect. It's worth specifying, because it makes the feat more impressive, given that he both casually and indirectly created the black hole.

Insisting that it comes down to intention is just cherry picking definitions of side effect.

Can't get any clearer than that.

By the same way he has beat characters way beyond surfer, many times in his almost 80 years of existence.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Morg wasn't with WOL amp. Even Terrax fought Morg for several pages after his resurrection.

Morg is less powerful than Surfer and even then he had to go all out and Morg unleashing his own power to beat him.

That's one win out of what, two thousand comics Surfer appeared in?

He couldn't even beat Thing with his energy blasts just recently.

I'm not dismissing anything. I'm just showing them in proportion to the other characters capabilities.

Surfer creating black holes is worth less than nothing when you know it can't take out cannon fodder seekers.

Direct character showings are frequently subject to some level of PIS, uber feats are what seperate the mid heralds from the high heralds. It's why Thor and Superman are in a tier above BRB and Captain Marvel on KMC.