Originally posted by cdtmThey attack and move from their position.
Their first attack alerts him to their position.Then he hits them with a tree. Harder to dodge a tree then a fist.
Batman has disappeared in seconds from Superman, Flash and more.
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batstealthflash2.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batstealthflash3.jpg
Tell me, is Hercules faster than Jay Garrick?
The stealthiest character in DCU is at a disadvantage in a forrest? Where he could easily practice hit and run, without Hercules having any idea where it's coming from?
And Bat's toys would only make it worse. Smoke bombs, tear gas, sticky goo on Herc's face (no, not that...)... and that's just his most standard equip, nothing exotic.
Is Superman knocking over buildings?
Because if he was, Batman couldn't "stealth" his way out of that. A bloodlusted Supes means that dark corner of a building he's in is flying to the moon.
That's why I say the jungle is a detriment to the human/meta characters. Herc could simply keep throwing large objects in every direction, and he'll eventually get them.
Conversely, those same trees/vegetation will limit their mobility. A tree = cover + weapon for Herc, because he can kick it over and they can't.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW👆
And Bat's toys would only make it worse. Smoke bombs, tear gas, sticky goo on Herc's face (no, not that...)... and that's just his most standard equip, nothing exotic.
He'd get spammed with all sorts of gas/bombs/shield hits, all the time, while having zero visibility and awareness from where his adversary is.
Originally posted by cdtmHercules doesn't have super speed to simultaneously throw trees in every possibly direction. They could simply look at him, predict where he'd throw and get out of the way. They have range, Hercules doesn't, except what he finds around [rocks/trees]
Herc could simply keep throwing large objects in every direction, and he'll eventually get them.
Originally posted by cdtmTrees/vegeation is ridiculously helpful as far as stealth goes. There's hundreds of trees in a square mile, and Hercules has no idea where they are. What, he just picks a random tree hoping they're there? While being hit from multiple directions? And blinded with gas?
Conversely, those same trees/vegetation will limit their mobility. A tree = cover + weapon for Herc, because he can kick it over and they can't.
Originally posted by Philosophíagas is going to work on Hercules now? That's like saying pepper spray will affect Superman.
👆He'd get spammed with all sorts of gas/bombs/shield hits, all the time, while having zero visibility and awareness from where his adversary is.
What bombs does Batman actually carry around on average that gives him the ability to even make Hercules notice?
How is the team fighting smart and yet Hercules is just lumbering around getting attacked from all directions?
Herc smashes clear a clearing, Batman has to be careful of wood missiles, Cap has his shield. Then Herc punts them both into mist with a tree trunk.
Herc doesn't care about Batman's vanishing skills. Hercs not DC, so he's not going to humour that shit.
Sentence structure reads weird... Hooray for alcohol 👆
Originally posted by emu😆
Herc smashes clear a clearing, Batman has to be careful of wood missiles, Cap has his shield. Then Herc punts them both into mist with a tree trunk.
Herc doesn't care about Batman's vanishing skills. Hercs not DC, so he's not going to humour that shit.Sentence structure reads weird... Hooray for alcohol 👆
"But Superman, how do we do that?"
"You know stupid 'vanish into thin air' thing that we all used to pretend he can do as a joke? Let's play it up and make it seem like none of us can find him."
"Like reverse hide and seek?"
"Exactly."
what's to keep him from literally clearing a massive area all around him by simply flattening his surroundings? he'd take hits but he has some very good durability feats. the shield would be useless except to annoy him. there is certainly a chance he could actually grab it or use it at some point as well. i would see him getting po'd, grabbing tree after tree and creating a huge open area for himself to limit their ranged stuff. by simply smashing random trees and tossing them haphazardly, there is a very good chance he could take out one or both. there just isn't a viable way for them to put him down. spidey almost broke his fists hitting him. pool stabbed him in both eyes. all those things do is irritate him. bats weapons would be the only chance, and as standard equipment he doesn't generally carry herald-busting stuff. they could hassle him for a long while but in the end they'd tire or run out of tricks and that would be that imo. he also doesn't thunderclap often, but has done so on a couple occasions, and he's also shockwaved a couple times.
Originally posted by deathslashReduces visibility. He can use flash bangs to blind him for extended periods of time. Also, Hercules is not Superman. But if you want Superman, here he is being blinded:
gas is going to work on Hercules now? That's like saying pepper spray will affect Superman.
Originally posted by deathslashYou mean like a Batarangs that outperform Heat Vision [Superman+J'onn] + Green Lantern Energy and more?
What bombs does Batman actually carry around on average that gives him the ability to even make Hercules notice?
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfuserang1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfuserang2.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfuserang3.jpg
Here he is putting Captain Nazi [Black Adam peer] down with exploding batarangs and getting ready to finish him [who was, by coincidence, swinging a 'tree'/pole and he was with a teammate]:
http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/bat%20pics%202/batredhoodvsocietyvillains1b.jpg.html
http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/bat%20pics%202/batredhoodvsocietyvillains1c.jpg.html
Destroying Doomsday clones:
http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/Mobs-Teams/Battle%20Tactics/supermanbatman10-batbombsvsdoomclones.jpg.html
He has Batarangs capable of KOing Grundy:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batazerang1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batazerang2.jpg
lol@ Hercules taking notice. You know shit about Batman.
You also forgot Captain America. Batman is not alone here.
Originally posted by deathslashHercules IS a lumbering brick, going up against top-tier tactically, top-tier stealthy, top-end combatants.
How is the team fighting smart and yet Hercules is just lumbering around getting attacked from all directions?
Originally posted by leonidasNever said he is dumb, just that he is a lumbering brick - which he is. No flight, no superspeed, no x-ray vision, no nothing. He is nowhere near the smart fighters Cap/Batman are, either. The fact that his only change is to randomly throw trees hoping he hits opponents that he has no idea the location of is quite telling.
when necessary herc is more than a lumbering brick. we've seen how smart he can fight on a number of occasions when his power levels have fluctuated. he's very skilled and is by no means dumb....
Originally posted by Philosophíaevery feat there with the exclusion of the first scan is from pre flashpoint. Show me something from new 52 (the version that we're talking about) or drop it.
Reduces visibility. He can use flash bangs to blind him for extended periods of time. Also, Hercules is not Superman. But if you want Superman, here he is being blinded:
http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/supermanamericanalien4-batmanvclarkkent5.jpg.htmlYou mean like a Batarangs that outperform Heat Vision [Superman+J'onn] + Green Lantern Energy and more?
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfuserang1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfuserang2.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfuserang3.jpgHere he is putting Captain Nazi [Black Adam peer] down with exploding batarangs and getting ready to finish him [who was, by coincidence, swinging a 'tree'/pole and he was with a teammate]:
http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/bat%20pics%202/batredhoodvsocietyvillains1b.jpg.html
http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/bat%20pics%202/batredhoodvsocietyvillains1c.jpg.htmlDestroying Doomsday clones:
http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/Mobs-Teams/Battle%20Tactics/supermanbatman10-batbombsvsdoomclones.jpg.htmlHe has Batarangs capable of KOing Grundy:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batazerang1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batazerang2.jpglol@ Hercules taking notice. You know shit about Batman.
You also forgot Captain America. Batman is not alone here.
Hercules IS a lumbering brick, going up against top-tier tactically, top-tier stealthy, top-end combatants.
Hercules is a "lumbering brick" that currently uses modern weaponry in addition to his old weapons and is skilled enough to fight metas even when he didn't have his powers. Batman throws an explosive and a second later the tree that he was standing in gets blown up by an RPG shot. Cap throws his shield, and before it returns to him, he gets M60 rounds flying at him for his efforts. By the way, Hercules is definitely fast enough to catch caps shield and throw it far enough away for cap to be useless.
@phil well, he has pretty limited options. he's in a forest fighting what is effectively guerilla warfare with no weapons. there are only so many ways TO fight this. randomly throwing trees and clearing an area for line of sight probably IS the best way for him to go about this. not sure what else he can do that would be considered 'smart'. randomness would be the intelligent move, taking away their advantages. he could shockwave and simply hurl hundreds of thousands of tons of earth and rock around as well, pulverize huge pieces of earth and have the debris scour the area like thousands of bullets as well. he can also jump to try and gain some sight advantage, but not sure that would help unless he cleared some space for himself. he has some options here, but sometimes simple is the most effective. /shrug
Originally posted by deathslashBatman kept most of his continuity in New 52, the same as Green Lanterns. The fact that you're running behind 'it's not canon now' is an admission of defeat.
every feat there with the exclusion of the first scan is from pre flashpoint. Show me something from new 52 (the version that we're talking about) or drop it.
Originally posted by deathslashHaha, now you're just going full retard. Hercules in this thread is in his classic incarnation, not armed with goddamn RPG's.
Hercules is a "lumbering brick" that currently uses modern weaponry in addition to his old weapons and is skilled enough to fight metas even when he didn't have his powers. Batman throws an explosive and a second later the tree that he was standing in gets blown up by an RPG shot.
Go away, dummy.
Originally posted by leonidasThe fact that he has pretty limited options is exactly my point. He can't teleport the whole forrest away - even if he starts taking down some trees [while Cap/Batman do what, stay there and OWL-away?], then what? The terrain doesn't suddenly become smooth and flat. The actual torn down trees/areas/rocks are still there to move around behind, while Hercules can't see shit. Hitting the ground doesn't suddenly generate 360 degree uniform bullet-like debris, not to mention that the shield can protect both Cap and Batman [who has the costume on top of it, which can also withstand it]. Or they can simply dodge it [they've dodged worse]. Or take covers between other stuff. Plenty of scenarios in which they don't get hit,nevermind KO.
@phil well, he has pretty limited options. he's in a forest fighting what is effectively guerilla warfare with no weapons. there are only so many ways TO fight this. randomly throwing trees and clearing an area for line of sight probably IS the best way for him to go about this. not sure what else he can do that would be considered 'smart'. randomness would be the intelligent move, taking away their advantages. he could shockwave and simply hurl hundreds of thousands of tons of earth and rock around as well, pulverize huge pieces of earth and have the debris scour the area like thousands of bullets as well. he can also jump to try and gain some sight advantage, but not sure that would help unless he cleared some space for himself. he has some options here, but sometimes simple is the most effective. /shrug
If Hercules strategy is that he randomly hits the ground and throws trees at targets that he can't see, in the hopes that there's the off-chance they're hit and KO, and this happens the majority of time, it's simply wishful thinking.
Originally posted by deathslashThere's batarangs that outperform supes HV and GL energy being mentioned now....
😆
"Ok guys, so Batman is the only one without powers so let's make him feel important.""But Superman, how do we do that?"
"You know stupid 'vanish into thin air' thing that we all used to pretend he can do as a joke? Let's play it up and make it seem like none of us can find him."
"Like reverse hide and seek?"
"Exactly."
Batman kills half the world bcause his batarangs. Ends on an awesome note, no one knows what the f*ck happened because of herald wrecking stealth.
Does anyone argue a normal Batman anymore?
