Batman & Captain America vs Hercules · Comic Book 'Versus' Forum

deathslash Pyromaniacal Humanitarian

Originally posted by Philosophía
Batman kept most of his continuity in New 52, the same as Green Lanterns. The fact that you're running behind 'it's not canon now' is an admission of defeat.
Haha, now you're just going full retard. Hercules in this thread is in his classic incarnation, not armed with goddamn RPG's.
Go away, dummy.

the fact that you don't specify which version of the characters is being used in this fight is your own failing, not mine. Using clear cut PIS feats and then pretending that feats consisting of Justice League fights are still canon is rediculous. Batman kept most of his backstory and self contained stories, doesn't mean that all of those feats are still canon or that using some of his absolute highest feats make his average anything more that low meta at best.

*Says we're using classic Hercules*
*Doesn't specify which version we're using in the OP*
*I use the forum rules*
*Somehow I'm the dummy*

StiltmanFTW CBvF

Originally posted by emu
Does anyone argue a normal Batman anymore?

Define a "normal" Batman.

Even in his own corner of DC Universe, he does stuff like headbutting Bane to KO...

cdtm Restricted

Originally posted by leonidas
what's to keep him from literally clearing a massive area all around him by simply flattening his surroundings? he'd take hits but he has some very good durability feats. the shield would be useless except to annoy him. there is certainly a chance he could actually grab it or use it at some point as well. i would see him getting po'd, grabbing tree after tree and creating a huge open area for himself to limit their ranged stuff. by simply smashing random trees and tossing them haphazardly, there is a very good chance he could take out one or both. there just isn't a viable way for them to put him down. spidey almost broke his fists hitting him. pool stabbed him in both eyes. all those things do is irritate him. bats weapons would be the only chance, and as standard equipment he doesn't carry herald-busting stuff. they could hassle him for a long while but in the end they'd tire or run out of tricks and that would be that imo. he also doesn't thunderclap often, but has done so on a couple occasions, and he's also shockwaved a couple times.

I see it like Guts vs the guy with the feather duster in Berserk, in the area with the pillers.

The quick guy was nimble enough to avoid him, but he just kept on cutting the pillers down. Eventually, he cleared the area.

Philo also seems to be assuming the team will fight smart, while Herc will stand there aimlessly. He can do things to minimize his vulnerabilities... Even something as simple as carrying around one/two large objects as makeshift shields and limiting the directions they can come at him.

emu Senior Member

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Define a "normal" Batman.
Even in his own corner of DC Universe, he does stuff like headbutting Bane to KO...

Facing Herc? Break out the HV, GL killing batarangs.

Batman's utility belt needs to stop being kmc's wonder weapon.
Define the belt by averages, we get the real Batman.

As it is, there's no Batman that beats Herc. Lol at a forest making a difference. No bias, because Cap dies too.

Philosophía "The devil made me do it"

Originally posted by cdtm
Philo also seems to be assuming the team will fight smart, while Herc will stand there aimlessly.

Stop strawmanning my position, like a cowardly moron.

I never said Hercules was standing there doing nothing - I accepted all possibilities that has been argued for him in this thread (throwing trees, trashing the forrest) and argued against them.

Originally posted by cdtm
Even something as simple as carrying around one/two large objects as makeshift shields and limiting the directions they can come at him.

What are those mythical shield-like objects found in a forrest that somehow limit the impact of attacks that can hurt top-tiers? Adamantium trees? Vibranium stones?

And wasn't Hercules throwing trees around blindly, or have we simply abandoned that? Now he has two shields? Is he holding them on his dick?

Can you present a coherent argument, or are you simply throwing shit at the wall and hoping something sticks?

cdtm Restricted

Calling Herc a lumbering brick, and claiming that his only options are "randomly throwing stuff" are your words, no?

Claiming Cap and Batman will strike, fade away, then strike again is what you've argued, no?

I'm saying Herc is smarter then that. Even in his classic incarnation. He was smart enough to try incapacitating Hulk by opening up a mountain, and pulling it in around him.. That's a bit more then "lumbering brawler" tactics.

He can limit Cap and Bat's options, actively putting up obstacles, establishing choke points, ect.. He has the feats to support out of the box thinking beyond "hit someone".

krisblaze Senior Member

Hercules blitzes them.

Philosophía "The devil made me do it"

Originally posted by cdtm
Calling Herc a lumbering brick, and claiming that his only options are "randomly throwing stuff" are your words, no?

Herc IS a limited brick, and you'd be quite wrong to argue otherwise. Throwing trees and trashing the forrest are the only arguments presented up until now, and even Leo has admitted that he is limited in what he can do.

Originally posted by cdtm
Claiming Cap and Batman will strike, fade away, then strike again is what you've argued, no?

Yes.

Originally posted by cdtm
I'm saying Herc is smarter then that. Even in his classic incarnation. He was smart enough to try incapacitating Hulk by opening up a mountain, and pulling it in around him.. That's a bit more then "lumbering brawler" tactics.
He can limit Cap and Bat's options, actively putting up obstacles, establishing choke points, ect.. He has the feats to support out of the box thinking beyond "hit someone".

Hulk is a dumb brick, Batman and Cap are literally the opposite of that. If you think Hercules will tactically outwit Batman and Captain America, you're out of your mind.

I'm waiting for options on what he can do - you've given me throwing shit and making shields out of trees/stones, and you're crying like a baby on how I think Hercules is dumb. No, you are dumb if all you can do is say he throws shit and hopes for the best.

Hercules doesn't know where they are, he gets spammed with gas grenades, flashbangs, toxins, transqulizers, sonics, electrocution, explosives that are capable of operating at top-tier levels, shield throws, batarangs to the eyes etc.

DarkSaint85 Bonified abstract

Even IF Herc throws trees - he's going up against guys who do nothing but predict how flying objects behave. Be it bullets, batarangs, or shields, Cap and Bats have tons of experience in dodging flying projectiles/predicting flight paths.

Don't make me bust that WW scan out AGAIN.

emu Senior Member

..@ Phil,

Nearly every weapon Batman has, he has to throw.
Cap has a shield ffs lol.
Sounds like the same tactics you laugh at Herc using.

Herc isn't stupid, and how smart do you have to be anyway?
Uproot a twenty ton tree and swing the bloody thing.

DarkSaint85 Bonified abstract

Originally posted by deathslash
every feat there with the exclusion of the first scan is from pre flashpoint. Show me something from new 52 (the version that we're talking about) or drop it.
Hercules is a "lumbering brick" that currently uses modern weaponry in addition to his old weapons and is skilled enough to fight metas even when he didn't have his powers. Batman throws an explosive and a second later the tree that he was standing in gets blown up by an RPG shot. Cap throws his shield, and before it returns to him, he gets M60 rounds flying at him for his efforts. By the way, Hercules is definitely fast enough to catch caps shield and throw it far enough away for cap to be useless.

Tasers that stun Superman:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/batmansuperman15-batazervsuperman.jpg

Explosives that move Superman(note how tiny that little 'rang is):
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Strategy-Tactics/Solo%20Battles/batmansuperman1-batmanvsuperman6.jpg

Flashbangs that stun Supes, too:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/supermanamericanalien4-batmanvclarkkent5.jpg

All new 52.

Stealth?

He's attacked, then disappeared from, Andrew Bennett, a powerful vampire (who, one hopes, is pretty good with darkness):
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Stealth/ivampire5-batvamp2.jpg

Against a human, true, but damn - he was actually LOOKING at him:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Stealth/thedarknight3-forbes.jpg

Against Superman, Catwoman, and Lois Lane - WHILST THEY'RE LOOKING AT HIM IN BROAD DAYLIGHT:

Superman again:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Stealth/batman20-superbatstealth.jpg

Against Gotham AND Gotham Girl, despite them using Ultra Vision to actively search for him, and despite looking at him:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Stealth/batman2-batmangothamstealth3.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Stealth/batman2-batmangothamstealth4.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Stealth/batman2-batmangothamstealth5.jpg

All New 52.

emu Senior Member

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Even IF Herc throws trees - he's going up against guys who do nothing but predict how flying objects behave. Be it bullets, batarangs, or shields, Cap and Bats have tons of experience in dodging flying projectiles/predicting flight paths.
Don't make me bust that WW scan out AGAIN.

A tree thrown by Herc doesn't have to hit. There's a lot of collateral damage.
Other trees splitting, splinters the size of branches, there's a LOT of ammunition for Herc. A LOT of dodging, in a forest, for Cap and Batman. And you cant go on offence when you're dodging a forest, and trees flying at you thrown with the speed of Herc's strength.

deathslash Pyromaniacal Humanitarian

Originally posted by cdtm
I see it like Guts vs the guy with the feather duster in Berserk, in the area with the pillers.
The quick guy was nimble enough to avoid him, but he just kept on cutting the pillers down. Eventually, he cleared the area.
Philo also seems to be assuming the team will fight smart, while Herc will stand there aimlessly. He can do things to minimize his vulnerabilities... Even something as simple as carrying around one/two large objects as makeshift shields and limiting the directions they can come at him.

all that i got from your post is that you read berserk and are therefore far more awesome than I previously thought.

Also, philo's wrong,

Philosophía "The devil made me do it"

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Even IF Herc throws trees - he's going up against guys who do nothing but predict how flying objects behave. Be it bullets, batarangs, or shields, Cap and Bats have tons of experience in dodging flying projectiles/predicting flight paths.
Don't make me bust that WW scan out AGAIN.

Not to mention Hercules doesn't know where they are.

Ize19 Senior Member

Originally posted by cdtm
I see it like Guts vs the guy with the feather duster in Berserk, in the area with the pillers.
The quick guy was nimble enough to avoid him, but he just kept on cutting the pillers down. Eventually, he cleared the area.
Philo also seems to be assuming the team will fight smart, while Herc will stand there aimlessly. He can do things to minimize his vulnerabilities... Even something as simple as carrying around one/two large objects as makeshift shields and limiting the directions they can come at him.

There's a world of difference between the scenarios. The pillars made it difficult for Guts to swing his sword, but they didn't provide Serpico with anywhere to hide, plus Guts wasn't just stronger than him, he was faster, smarter, with a better arsenal, and much more skilled, a veteran of war since he was 3, while Serpico was a rich kid with some dueling experience. Pretty much all of the advantages Guts had, belong to Batman and Captain America here, sans strength. Strength isn't enough, team wins.

eaebiakuya Senior Member

So what, Batman is Low herald in attack capacity now?

celeyhyga17 Yawning Void

Thunder clap. Ground shockwaves. Use trees. Two streets(low meta at best) is not getting a majority over Hercules.

And lol at the usual "your a moron", "your a dummy", "your a retard", "your a coward" schtick.

Smh... His go to stick up ure @$$ move.

cdtm Restricted

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Even IF Herc throws trees - he's going up against guys who do nothing but predict how flying objects behave. Be it bullets, batarangs, or shields, Cap and Bats have tons of experience in dodging flying projectiles/predicting flight paths.
Don't make me bust that WW scan out AGAIN.

Very true.

Now lets see scans of them dodging moons.

That's the point I'm getting at. If Superman and Plutonian fought in a city, Batman would need to dodge an island, bare minimum. Maybe he can, he IS Batman. 🙂

And while Herc is no Plutonian, he can upend THE ENTIRE BATTLEFIELD. Literally.

He can just rip a mountain sized chunk of the ground and dump it over, if that's what it took.

zopzop Lord of the Great Abyss

How the phuck is this still going on? How are two human beings (one of them peak) going to take down a low herald in a jungle setting? If anything THEY are the ones that are screwed because the heat and humidity in a jungle setting would wear them down while Hercules would be immune.

Sin I AM Madame Mort

^^pretty much. I just assumed anyone voting for the team was trolling.