Originally posted by bluewaterrider
JBL states it that way.And I understand to a fair extent why he does.
And I said as much.
But that doesn't mean he has exactly the same view I do, anymore than my saying I understand Delta's point of view means that Delta and I share the same view.
I think Superman does have SOME ability to turn things up a notch, but not nearly as much most times as his most
deldevoted fans seem to think.
The difference is, I'm actually right. 😄
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
JBL states it that way.And I understand to a fair extent why he does.
And I said as much.
But that doesn't mean he has exactly the same view I do, anymore than my saying I understand Delta's point of view means that Delta and I share the same view.
I think Superman does have SOME ability to turn things up a notch, but not nearly as much most times as his most
deldevoted fans seem to think.
Except your view is far closer to the Superfans view,than to JBL's. He not only sees it as a binary choice, but that it's a resounding 'no'.
The way your post was phrased, however,implied you were closer to his way of thinking.
But now, re reading it,I can see it's mostly just you waffling on.
Misunderstanding on your part is not "waffling" on mine, D.S.
There's a vast deal I agree with JBL on.
Let's take another look at this post of his
Originally posted by JBL
Normal superman? So this normal superman of yours let prime kill all those hero's instead of dropping mental blocks and atleast saving some of them? That would be the dumbest plot driven comic ever released to the public if superman could get stronger by removing mental blocks. I wonder why he didn't do that in over 50 years? Oh wait, millions of fans know why.
This post of JBL's wasn't made in a vacuum. There's context and history behind it that the average fan reading this thread has little chance of understanding solely from what's printed here. I have my own knowledge of history; immediately coming to mind for me is the run of one Jeph Loeb, who gave this "Hey, maybe Superman holds back!" explanation to draw to a close his re-introduction of one Kara Zor-El, aka Supergirl, circa 2004, in her second story arc. Been thinking a LOT about that lately. Been seeing in places where pro-Superman people have been tacitly admitting that explanation doesn't follow from anything Jeph put in his books, makes sense most rather, that some editorial mandate had been passed "Jeph, do something to make people think status quo has been preserved".
Why have they been doing this?
Because the producers of the Supergirl TV Series starring Melissa Benoist gave their answer to who the strongest between these 2 actually is, on many levels. And also who'd win in a fight.
A lot of Superman fans WON'T like the answer. DON'T like the answer.
Fact, I sent Delta a PM with links to 2 clips showing what happened. More than five times as many likes for the clip as dislikes, but nearly all dislikes focused on ONE thing, and now I see YouTube has removed what I sent him.
I suspect the same fate awaits this one, but it's worth showing:
Originally posted by Delta1938Jeph already wrote Superman like that in the OWAW prelude a few years before reintroducing Kara.
Nearly all heroes are written as holding back though. From Thor to Spider-Man level. Prove that Superman did so prior to 2004 to a greater level than Thor, or Spider-Man or any run-of-the-mill strong hero does anywhere else in comicdom.
Show me Kurt Busiek level crippling pre-2004 and you might find even me giving some validity to the idea.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Nearly all heroes are written as holding back though. From Thor to Spider-Man level. Prove that Superman did so prior to 2004 to a greater level than Thor, or Spider-Man or any run-of-the-mill strong hero does anywhere else in comicdom.Show me Kurt Busiek level crippling pre-2004 and you might find even me giving some validity to the idea.
Except it's not the same with Superman. Leob specifically showed that in the run I'm referring to. I'm on my Xbox so can't post links, but it's recently been posted in other threads.
Plus you're one to demand scans given your rarity of backing your argument with relevant scans.
EDIT: Scans from early Post-CRISIS Superman showing it's more than what others try to argue are posted by Phil in OWAW Superman vs Superboy Prime on page 2.
Oh dear lord.
Two of superman hate camp
JBL having his daily meltdown and Blue ignoring evidence presented to him.
Both waste of time to be honest. At least Blue is a nice guy
Im going to post a whole arc in which it was talked about Superman's mental block and how he supreses his powers based on his mindset. It's like 10 scans in which he fought a group of supervillains and then you can see the difference of his mental blocks. This was on the early days of Byrne era Superman.
But first I am going to have breakfast
Originally posted by bluewaterriderBlue, don't waste your time with these fanatic superman fans. They want to protect superman by creating a way to save their hero by trying to give a reason to cover his losses. He loses to Zoom, they yell, superman was holding back!! That's their so call saving grace they had to make up. Yet they fail to see the he obvious. If superman could do what they say, then this would happen. In his fans eyes, he's almost as fast as flash, a little slower, equal or a little faster than WW reflex wise. Equal to or a little stronger Than CM, BA and other strong DC characters. Almost as or equal to DD. Now if this superman of theirs could grant their wet dreams, he would surpass all mentioned greatly. Sadly for them, he never has in over 50 years. But it's entertaining to hear them beg.😂
Misunderstanding on your part is not "waffling" on mine, D.S.There's a vast deal I agree with JBL on.
Let's take another look at this post of hisThis post of JBL's wasn't made in a vacuum. There's context and history behind it that the average fan reading this thread has little chance of understanding solely from what's printed here. I have my own knowledge of history; immediately coming to mind for me is the run of one Jeph Loeb, who gave this "Hey, maybe Superman holds back!" explanation to draw to a close his re-introduction of one Kara Zor-El, aka Supergirl, circa 2004, in her second story arc. Been thinking a LOT about that lately. Been seeing in places where pro-Superman people have been tacitly admitting that explanation doesn't follow from anything Jeph put in his books, makes sense most rather, that some editorial mandate had been passed "Jeph, do something to make people think status quo has been preserved".
Why have they been doing this?
Because the producers of the Supergirl TV Series starring Melissa Benoist gave their answer to who the strongest between these 2 actually is, on many levels. And also who'd win in a fight.
A lot of Superman fans WON'T like the answer. DON'T like the answer.
Fact, I sent Delta a PM with links to 2 clips showing what happened. More than five times as many likes for the clip as dislikes, but nearly all dislikes focused on ONE thing, and now I see YouTube has removed what I sent him.I suspect the same fate awaits this one, but it's worth showing:
Originally posted by JBL
Blue, don't waste your time with these fanatic superman fans. They want to protect superman by creating a way to save their hero by trying to give a reason to cover his losses. He loses to Zoom, they yell, superman was holding back!! That's their so call saving grace they had to make up. Yet they fail to see the he obvious. If superman could do what they say, then this would happen. In his fans eyes, he's almost as fast as flash, a little slower, equal or a little faster than WW reflex wise. Equal to or a little stronger Than CM, BA and other strong DC characters. Almost as or equal to DD. Now if this superman of theirs could grant their wet dreams, he would surpass all mentioned greatly. Sadly for them, he never has in over 50 years. But it's entertaining to hear them beg.😂
Triggered.
Originally posted by JBL
Even their Lord OWAW superman could only do no better than DD who destroyed the same probes. Superman could not at first because he was pre occupied worrying and not focused. DD had no such concerns.
Seriously, did someone in a Superman costume traumatize you as a child? That's the only reason I can think of for you to be so personally offended that Superman even has a chance of winning the fight in any random topic with him I've seen you cry in.
When he's right, he's right.
It's pretty common knowledge (Or should be) that Loeb was trying to push Supergirl as physically stronger then Superman. Gave an explanation that she spent more time under a yellow sun absorbing energy, had Kal use a green K ring to subdue her, and other tells.
And then, for whatever reason, this was retconned.
The "limiters off/probe busting" narrative is neither here nor there on that front, and was pretty clearly used as a sloppy retcon of everything he wrote prior.
Why, is anybody's guess.
Re: Superboy Prime replaces Doomsday in DOS
Originally posted by backupSuperman-Prime wholeheartedly
All right, what if this guy:http://i36.tinypic.com/2poe2z5.jpg
Replaces Doomsday in DOS and fight with bloodlusted Superman?
Note: This is Superboy Prime during SCW.
Who wins?
Originally posted by Rao Kal ElIs it mental blocks or dynamic strength?
Oh dear lord.Two of superman hate camp
JBL having his daily meltdown and Blue ignoring evidence presented to him.
Both waste of time to be honest. At least Blue is a nice guy
Im going to post a whole arc in which it was talked about Superman's mental block and how he supreses his powers based on his mindset. It's like 10 scans in which he fought a group of supervillains and then you can see the difference of his mental blocks. This was on the early days of Byrne era Superman.
But first I am going to have breakfast
Quick, before Abhi comes in yelling for both lol.
