Superman vs. Savage Hulk (h2h) only

Originally posted by Surtur
It almost sounds like you're upset these characters would actually behave intelligently. I'm not going to get into the Surfer debate again, but IMO when it comes to J'onn I think Superman is faster and could use his speed to overwhelm him before he does anything. A combination of heat vision and physical attacks.

However, if we were to say they are equals in speed I would say J'onn going intangible to avoid harm would be fair game. The fact of the matter is some powers are just very broken.

Superman actually has used his heat vision to effect intangible opponents, but that's a different topic.

Also, Hulkster chucks the very argument he uses here in the Gladiator vs Lobo topic, so yeah.

Originally posted by carver9
Some writers think Hulk is as durable as Adamantium and have unlimited strength and have enough strength to have the ultimate being in Marvel be surprised at it. Do I ignore Hulk entire history and use this as a norm for the character? Superman wouldn't even be able to put a scratch on Hulk if we ignored 90% of Hulk history and just stayed with his powerset. His heat vision, freeze breath, all of it would be coming from a mosquito. That's if we stick to that small percentage of showings.

If Hulk has a lot of feats showing he is as durable as adamantium then that would be something you could use.

You talk about ignoring history, but you ignore Superman's history. Hell one of his taglines has always been "faster than a speeding bullet".

Originally posted by Delta1938
As dead as Logan?

Yeah, dead but yet present in all comics through their alternate versions.

Old Man Logan is going to chop Maestro to pieces in the current arc, I bet carvie is pissing his pants.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Superman actually has used his heat vision to effect intangible opponents, but that's a different topic.

Also, Hulkster chucks the very argument he uses here in the Gladiator vs Lobo topic, so yeah.

Interesting, and I think actually Hyperion from Marvel did so as well.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah, dead but yet present in all comics through their alternate versions.

Old Man Logan is going to chop Maestro to pieces in the current arc, I bet carvie is pissing his pants.

I'm not sure sure which I want more. Maestro to get cut to pieces so carter will be sad or Old Man Logan to get his ass kicked so you can be sad. Either way, I win. 💃

OML already killed 1 Banner. Don't think the one wearing a gay necklace will present a problem.

Originally posted by Surtur
Interesting, and I think actually Hyperion from Marvel did so as well.

Whether it'd work on J'onn or not, I don't know, but the examples are there to prove it's a possibility.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
OML already killed 1 Banner. Don't think the one wearing a gay necklace will present a problem.

So OML either has two and makes carter cry, or you get your hopes up only to be crushed. I'm the winner either way. 😄

Originally posted by Delta1938

Also, Hulkster chucks the very argument he uses here in the Gladiator vs Lobo topic, so yeah.

Originally posted by Juntai
The irony is that though you never really see him running around like Flash or Supes, Lobo's bio says he has superspeed [and other stats]akin to Supes to explain how he deals with Speedsters.

Which bio(s)? And I actually recall in their first published fight Superman was saying stuff about Lobo's speed, implying Lobo has at least some degree of super speed.

Originally posted by Surtur
If Hulk has a lot of feats showing he is as durable as adamantium then that would be something you could use.

You talk about ignoring history, but you ignore Superman's history. Hell one of his taglines has always been "faster than a speeding bullet".

Superman have more history of getting his face caved in by bricks vs using speed against them.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman have more history of getting his face caved in by bricks vs using speed against them.

Unless this is you purposely being dishonest instead of insanely dense and dim, this is an invalid argument. Superman has the feats to prove he has insane speed. In character he doesn't always utilize it. This makes your comparison for Hulk's durability retarded(but to be expected given who made it) because that's false equivalency.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Which bio(s)? And I actually recall in their first published fight Superman was saying stuff about Lobo's speed, implying Lobo has at least some degree of super speed.

The point is, Lobo has superspeed that allows him to hit speedsters.

Originally posted by Juntai
Lobo in combat was too fast for Superman back then in their first couple encounters, but everything has scaled upwards since. It's another one of those 40 years ago in 87 things. He beat the brakes off of Supes. That wouldn't happen later down the road though. It was one of those early meeting scenarios, similar to Supes vaulting past Darkseid as he was shown a few pages ago.

The point is, Lobo has superspeed that allows him to hit speedsters.

40 years of Superman unable to avoid being hit. 👆

I know Lobo hasn't treated Superman like that in speed since, I was pointing to an example that indicates super speed outside a bio.

DC ENCYCLOPEDIA?

Originally posted by Delta1938
40 years of Superman unable to avoid being hit. 👆

I know Lobo hasn't treated Superman like that in speed since, I was pointing to an example that indicates super speed outside a bio.

DC ENCYCLOPEDIA?

Also his Bio on dc webpage.
http://www.dccomics.com/characters/lobo

Originally posted by Juntai
Lobo in combat was too fast for Superman back then in their first couple encounters, but everything has scaled upwards since. It's another one of those 40 years ago in 87 things. He beat the brakes off of Supes. That wouldn't happen later down the road though. It was one of those early meeting scenarios, similar to Supes vaulting past Darkseid as he was shown a few pages ago.

The point is, Lobo has superspeed that allows him to hit speedsters.

Lobo's literally punched through Daxamite heat vision. Just boxed his way up the beam. You'd have to be pretty fast to do that.

Originally posted by carver9
Some writers think Hulk is as durable as Adamantium and have unlimited strength and have enough strength to have the ultimate being in Marvel be surprised at it. Do I ignore Hulk entire history and use this as a norm for the character? Superman wouldn't even be able to put a scratch on Hulk if we ignored 90% of Hulk history and just stayed with his powerset. His heat vision, freeze breath, all of it would be coming from a mosquito. That's if we stick to that small percentage of showings.

Why is this not discussed?

lol

that's what this thread has turned into. it needs to be closed, tbh.

Originally posted by Surtur
It almost sounds like you're upset these characters would actually behave intelligently. I'm not going to get into the Surfer debate again, but IMO when it comes to J'onn I think Superman is faster and could use his speed to overwhelm him before he does anything. A combination of heat vision and physical attacks.

However, if we were to say they are equals in speed I would say J'onn going intangible to avoid harm would be fair game. The fact of the matter is some powers are just very broken.

Behave intelligently where? What are you talking about? These are imaginary characters in comic books. They have no intelligence. They are written certain ways. We judge them based on how they are written, not on how you think they should be written. The overwhelming average show Superman routinely getting hit by characters whose strength he is familiar with and being hurt by those punches. So that is how he is judged. Based on that norm.

You seem upset with the notion that Superman can't beat every character in one second. Is he lesser because the effort writers make to challenge him count on battle boards? It all counts. Phil said that he understood that the worm that attacked Deathseed Sentry served the story purpose of getting Sentry out of the way for a while. He then adds that regardless, it still counts.

So everything else counts, regardless of writer's purpose. History dictates that Superman will have to struggle to beat Hulk and would be in jeopardy of losing. Hulk will land repeated blows. Now you may resume discussing me for another two pages with your friends.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Behave intelligently where? What are you talking about? These are imaginary characters in comic books. They have no intelligence. They are written certain ways. We judge them based on how they are written, not on how you think they should be written. The overwhelming average show Superman routinely getting hit by characters whose strength he is familiar with and being hurt by those punches. So that is how he is judged. Based on that norm.

You seem upset with the notion that Superman can't beat every character in one second. Is he lesser because the effort writers make to challenge him count on battle boards? It all counts. Phil said that he understood that the worm that attacked Deathseed Sentry served the story purpose of getting Sentry out of the way for a while. He then adds that regardless, it still counts.

So everything else counts, regardless of writer's purpose. History dictates that Superman will have to struggle to beat Hulk and would be in jeopardy of losing. Hulk will land repeated blows. Now you may resume discussing me for another two pages with your friends.

The difference is, it's one thing to argue about how a character would fight, it's another to say a character is incapable of something. You're arguing that Superman gets hit because he's unable to, to try and argue that Superman doesn't actually have super speed, or at least that he's not all that faster than human.

Then you go the opposite route in Gladiator vs Lobo.

Originally posted by Delta1938
The difference is, it's one thing to argue about how a character would fight, it's another to say a character is incapable of something. You're arguing that Superman gets hit because he's unable to, to try and argue that Superman doesn't actually have super speed, or at least that he's not all that faster than human.

Then you go the opposite route in Gladiator vs Lobo.

Talking about something flying over someone's head. One of your buddies who shares your view of Hulk not being able to respond to Superman's speed said in that thread that Lobo would crush Gladiator, a character established as having super speed. So I tossed your argument back at him to show the double standard/hypocrisy. None of you Superman fans give superspeed benefit to Gladiator, Sentry,etc. You actually debate Gladiator realistically based on portrayal. You debate a Superman that doesn't exist.

I argue that Superman does NOT get hit because he simply chooses to get hit in the face and sometimes nearly knocked out for absolutely no reason at all. No expaination has established why superspeed is so inconsistent and rarely used. I have possible reasons that could sensibly be used. If I state them, you will ask for "proof"; proof of a fictional idea in a fictional story. There is no proof. There are ideas that make the most sense within a story. Getting hit and hurt on purpose makes no sense.

And Hulk has shown speed enough to counter speed: