Loebforce Rulk versus DOS Doomsday

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
It is annoying beyond belief when TurboImageHost does what it's doing this week. Not yet as bad as when I started here years ago, but I'd gotten lulled by the ease and reliability of the service to such a point that my old way of posting is nearly intolerable to me now.

Anyway, I perused some of Doomsday Hunter/Prey as Salsa suggested and noted the sections where Doomsday went against Radiant. Noticed something of interest:

www.4GP.ME/ba3s/1497556873143.jpg

Radiant attacked DD with what is described as " pure energy".

Interestingly, he seems to have killed DD by completely overloading his body with energy, as their battle lasted days:

www.4GP.ME/ba3s/1497558415166.jpg

... whereupon, of course, Doomsday was suited as we saw him to begin the Death of Superman storyline ...

www.4GP.ME/ba3s/1497558591798.jpg

This is interesting because, of course, sunlight IS radiant energy.

And DD's body being overloaded by energy means he would have had a LOT of energy stored to sustain himself once he resurrected.

Enough to go well beyond the one millennia mark a [b]small meal of energy would permit? Many times that?

Worth a mention. [/B]

Makes sense ^

Originally posted by Delta1938
Doomsday isn't powered by stored energy.

Besides the Bio presented, along with the statement(s) of Bertron, it's interesting to note the language used at Doomsday's demise at the end of Hunter/Prey:

"... Entropy awaits like a ravenous beast, where it drains all energy and life."

www.4GP.ME/ba3s/1497560480971.jpg

www.4GP.ME/ba3s/149756056597.jpg

Except Rulk isn't limitless, like the death of all creation.

Who was the most powerful character Rulk utterly absorbed of all energy?

Canon, that is. Not alt. timeline Terraxes, or alt timeline Surfers with prep etc.

Savage Hulk. Prior to that IIRC only Surfer did the same thing

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
alt timeline Surfers with prep etc.

That was a canon Surfer, just not yet experienced with his power.

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Hulk_Vol_2_10

Same as it was 616 Namor in the Avengers/Invaders series, just dislocated in time.

So, no reason not to count that feat --- but of course it can be nitpicked all to hell since it was Surfer at the start of his career, iirc.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
So what about in the context of the Countdown bio which states that stored energy from solar rays fuel his "superstrong" body?

It even supports exactly what I said about Doomsday's power being specifically written to be from his evolution and adaption skills. All of which is also supported in the comics, where-as nothing in that bio, the previous panel, or an panel in any comic supports Doomsday actually gaining his power from the sun.

Originally posted by Galan007
The Countdown bio doesn't say anything that Bertron already didn't. srsly

Yes, solar radiation "nourishes" Doomsday to *some* ambiguous extent... But it is clearly NOT a *requirement* to sustain his overall power/survival, as he has functioned perfectly fine without it... ON PANEL. Doomsday's biology =/= Superman's, ffs.

What's not computing here?

Correct. Sunlight is not a catalyst to Doomsday's power and strength. Its just his food/air/etc. Doomsday's power is his evolution and adaptation.

Where-as Clark Kent sticks his hand into yellow Sunlight, you get Superman.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Careful -- you might even make Delta himself aware of what he's actually doing if you ask him questions like that.

You mean point out the mental gymnastics that Hulkster is going through to justify that Rulk can drain Doomsday?

And what about the fact that you yourself banned anything outside of DEATH OF SUPERMAN and broke your own rule, proving that you made this topic solely because you want Doomsday to lose?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
He is Kryptonian but his species isn't "Kryptonian" like Superman's is.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No.

He's like J'onn J'onzz to Superman's Homo.

Berty took an infant who was not native to Krypton.

Pretty clear psycho is referring to him being Kryptonian in the sense that he was born on Krypton, but not he's genetically Kryptonian.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Besides the Bio presented, along with the statement(s) of Bertron, it's interesting to note the language used at Doomsday's demise at the end of Hunter/Prey:

"... Entropy awaits like a ravenous beast, [b]where it drains all energy and life."

www.4GP.ME/ba3s/1497560480971.jpg

www.4GP.ME/ba3s/149756056597.jpg [/B]

So you're trying to argue Rulk is comparable to Entropy? If you even read the very scans you posted, you'd see them bringing up that life, not even Doomsday, can't exist at the end of time.

Not to mention that the entire attempt to argue Rulk can drain him goes against the very rules you yourself implemented.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

Red Hulk with his proper healing factor and energy absorbing abilities.
Versus Doomsday as he was in the Death of Superman storyline.

Speed equalized.
BFR on.

Who takes this?
How and why?

Or here.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider Watching the shenanigans of cheerleaders like Sin tells me people are going to misinterpret things with all their might regardless of what I actually post here, so I'll keep it simple, as I THOUGHT my initial post originally made clear:

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

Red Hulk with his proper healing factor and energy absorbing abilities.
Versus Doomsday as he was in the Death of Superman storyline.

Speed equalized.
BFR on.

Who takes this?
How and why?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas

i will say this at least--the rulk side has some ground to stand on here. there was a limit shown to the physical punishment dd could take. given the toon-force-esque powers of rulk in that specific time period, i don't think it's impossible for rulk to win this. i wouldn't give him odds--dd's too fast--but he could win i think. /shrug

... and as the above proves, even well-meaning people can read past fairly explicit statements, a point separate from the point made in paragraph 1.

So ... DOS feats only, Salsa.

So you say only examples from DEATH OF SUPERMAN can be used but then don't even follow that. Those in addition to putting speed is equalized, what other conclusion can I come to but you made this because you want Doomsday to lose?

Probably because of how sore you are over you claiming DarkSaint didn't tell anybody current Rulk isn't Ross until page 4, me proving you wrong showing him posting it on the very first page(when you joined in on page 2) and then not liking people not letting you get away with a long winded post about people thinking "classic Rulk" without ever admitting that you were wrong and missed DarkSaint's post on page 1.

You are terrible at this. But mental gymnastic your way into feeling better.

Originally posted by Juntai
It says the same thing. That's all one sentence. He doesn't need to eat, breath, etc, because stored sunlight keeps him going. It's the same exact context as before.

It even supports exactly what I said about Doomsday's power being specifically written to be from his evolution and adaption skills. All of which is also supported in the comics, where-as nothing in that bio, the previous panel, or an panel in any comic supports Doomsday actually gaining his power from the sun.

Correct. Sunlight is not a catalyst to Doomsday's power and strength. Its just his food/air/etc. Doomsday's power is his evolution and adaptation.

Where-as Clark Kent sticks his hand into yellow Sunlight, you get Superman.

So, draining all of his solar energy will not affect his power, but will kill him? How is dying fully powered any better?

Some of the shit I'm witnessing in this thread is beyond ridiculous, tbh. none

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
It is annoying beyond belief when TurboImageHost does what it's doing this week. Not yet as bad as when I started here years ago, but I'd gotten lulled by the ease and reliability of the service to such a point that my old way of posting is nearly intolerable to me now.

Anyway, I perused some of Doomsday Hunter/Prey as Salsa suggested and noted the sections where Doomsday went against Radiant. Noticed something of interest:

www.4GP.ME/ba3s/1497556873143.jpg

Radiant attacked DD with what is described as " pure energy".

Interestingly, he seems to have killed DD by completely overloading his body with energy, as their battle lasted days:

www.4GP.ME/ba3s/1497558415166.jpg

... whereupon, of course, Doomsday was suited as we saw him to begin the Death of Superman storyline ...

www.4GP.ME/ba3s/1497558591798.jpg

This is interesting because, of course, sunlight IS radiant energy.

And DD's body being overloaded by energy means he would have had a LOT of energy stored to sustain himself once he resurrected.

Enough to go well beyond the one millennia mark a [b]small meal of energy would permit? Many times that?

Worth a mention. [/B]

-If serious, please post scans explicitly stating that Radiant himself was composed of SOLAR energy.

-I will also need scans explicitly stating that DD ABSORBED and STORED Radiant's energy upon his death, and used it to nourish himself for a quarter-million years.

If you can't provide said scans(and I am positive you cannot), then just...stop...f*cking...talking. srsly

Originally posted by Galan007
...Except we KNOW it doesn't play any sort of major role in 'fueling' DD, because he's functioned perfectly fine WITHOUT the added 'nourishment' of solar radiation, on panel.

See, this is exactly why we do not rely solely on bios as though they represent incontrovertible fact -- more often than not, they are sharply contradicted by on panel showings. Unless the bio in question is in alignment with on panel showings, then it's entirely worthless as evidence... And this is a prime example.

On panel feats/statements > bio entries.

👆

However the bio does not sharply contradict what was on panel. At least I don't think so Imo. During DoS, he seemed to get stronger, more unstoppable as the arc progressed. He definitely seemed more unstoppable in DD wars and H/P. It may be because he only had the stored solar radiation to go on as opposed to the constant bombardment of solar radiation he most likely absorbed in later arcs.

*shrug*

^ It's a sound opinion, but it's just an opinion nonetheless. As I mentioned earlier: it has NEVER been stated(or even alluded to) anywhere on panel that solar energy was boosting DD's power...in any way/shape/form...at ANY point...in ANY arc/story he's appeared in...EVER.

*Adaption* and *evolution* have ALWAYS been cited as the SOLE catalysts responsible for boosting DD's stats -- Bertron specifically engineered him that way. The absorption of solar energy is a secondary(likely even tertiary) means of 'nourishment', which DD canonically does NOT require to function.

Where CANON is concerned: that's it. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
^ It's a sound opinion, but it's just an opinion nonetheless. As I mentioned earlier: it was NEVER stated(or even alluded to) anywhere on panel that solar energy was boosting DD's power...in any way/shape/form...at ANY point...in ANY arc/story he's appeared in...EVER.

*Adaption* and *evolution* have ALWAYS been cited as the SOLE catalysts responsible for boosting DD's stats -- Bertron specifically engineered him that way. The absorption of solar energy is a secondary(likely even tertiary) means of 'nourishment', of which he canonically does NOT at all require to function.

All of this is irrelevant given that Blue specified that only examples from DOS are allowed.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Red Hulk with his proper healing factor and energy absorbing abilities.
Versus Doomsday as he was in the Death of Superman storyline.

Speed equalized.
BFR on.

Who takes this?
How and why?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Watching the shenanigans of cheerleaders like Sin tells me people are going to misinterpret things with all their might regardless of what I actually post here, so I'll keep it simple, as I THOUGHT my initial post originally made clear:

[QUOTE=16232615]Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Red Hulk with his proper healing factor and energy absorbing abilities.
Versus Doomsday as he was in the Death of Superman storyline.

Speed equalized.
BFR on.

Who takes this?
How and why?

Originally posted by leonidas
i will say this at least--the rulk side has some ground to stand on here. there was a limit shown to the physical punishment dd could take. given the toon-force-esque powers of rulk in that specific time period, i don't think it's impossible for rulk to win this. i wouldn't give him odds--dd's too fast--but he could win i think. /shrug

... and as the above proves, even well-meaning people can read past fairly explicit statements, a point separate from the point made in paragraph 1.

So ... DOS feats only, Salsa. [/QUOTE]

Blue breaking the very rules he made only proves what I've said about him.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I agree regarding bios and statements.

However the bio does not sharply contradict what was on panel. At least I don't think so Imo. During DoS, he seemed to get stronger, more unstoppable as the arc progressed. He definitely seemed more unstoppable in DD wars and H/P. It may be because he only had the stored solar radiation to go on as opposed to the constant bombardment of solar radiation he most likely absorbed in later arcs.

*shrug*

Originally posted by Delta1938

And what about the fact that you yourself banned anything outside of DEATH OF SUPERMAN and broke your own rule, proving that you made this topic solely because you want Doomsday to lose?

I'm noting with interest that I have yet to see anyone save cdtm bring up anything from Death of Superman (DOS) that would suggest Doomsday even has a fighting chance against Rulk. IN more than 4 pages of posts now.

Part of the reason I posted some of the material you first criticized was to help cdtm corroborate his stance; I thought it a quite clever way for him to give a strength feat to Doomsday where otherwise none seems to exist.

Galan can uncharacteristically try egging me on for saying that, and did.
You, who have performed similar service for debate opponents, including myself, should know better. I don't think you really have failed to notice that my scans help frame cdtm's argument better, even as they counter some of the points as well; I'm a little puzzled over how you're acting.

You err if you truly think I made this topic solely, or even largely, from any desire to see Doomsday lose. One, I rarely post ANYTHING on this forum with only one objective in mind. Two, Rulk is not a favorite character of mine.
Three, I don't see where Jurgens' Superman in DOS gave damage output even equal to what Rulk dished out against Rick Jones as A-Bomb.
Rulk was producing earthquakes that measured 8.0 on the Richter scale as a side effect of his blows and accidentally killed a village's stock of people. Does DOS have anything comparable from Superman? You should refresh my memory if it does.
This is the place for it.

Perhaps you should look more closely then.

Planet was shaken to the core. A Richter 8.0 earthquake is nothing compared to that, as it is only 'felt in extremely large regions'. Certainly not global in effect.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Perhaps you should look more closely then.

Planet was shaken to the core. A Richter 8.0 earthquake is nothing compared to that, as it is only 'felt in extremely large regions'. Certainly not global in effect.

I'm not just seeing things that says Catalonians doesn't it? They made a typo or were the Calatan's in league with Catalan separatists?

Doomsday dreams of nothing else but the destruction of Kryptonians, and the establishment of a free Catalan state from her Spanish oppressors.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Perhaps you should look more closely then.

Planet was shaken to the core. A Richter 8.0 earthquake is nothing compared to that, as it is only 'felt in extremely large regions'. Certainly not global in effect.

It rises to at least Richter 10.0 (above anything recorded in real life).

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g9/Takion_photos/Hulk3015.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111113173/3723932-hulk+%233+016.jpg

Seismic P-waves of smaller quakes often reach Earth's core:

http://www.indiana.edu/~geol105/images/gaia_chapter_3/seismic.htm

Your link from Indiana does not say anything about the core.

In contrast, the earthquake which hit Japan recently, magnitude 9 on the Richter scale, only penetrated around 60km into the Earth's surface.

Here is the source of my info, which actually gives a depth:
https://www2.usgs.gov/faq/categories/9827/3344

Even if we allow for ten times that (which is impossible as it is at oceanic depths, not the desert as in your scan), that's still magnitudes less than the distance to the core.

The distance between the surface and the core is about 6000km.

Edit: at the very least, it shows that yes, DOS DD DOES have a similar, comparable feat. Which has already been posted.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Your link from Indiana does not say anything about the core.

In contrast, the earthquake which hit Japan recently, magnitude 9 on the Richter scale, only penetrated around 60km into the Earth's surface.

Here is the source of my info, which actually gives a depth:
https://www2.usgs.gov/faq/categories/9827/3344

Even if we allow for ten times that (which is impossible as it is at oceanic depths, not the desert as in your scan), that's still magnitudes less than the distance to the core.

The distance between the surface and the core is about 6000km.

Edit: at the very least, it shows that yes, DOS DD DOES have a similar, comparable feat. Which has already been posted.

My link references waves reaching the core/mantle border. Your link references the depth of the earthquake occurrence, not the distances traveled by the waves. Earthquakes happen beneath the surface but are felt at the surface.