Originally posted by Psychotron
It's ridiculous how Iron Man could go 1v1 with Thor in Avengers and hold his own for a bit, but then he gets molested by Steve in Civil War.
Different fights, imo. When Thor grappled with Iron Man he crushed his armour with little to no effort, but when he blasted him with lightning he actually charged up his armour. Thor didn't seem to take any damage, however. Steve got up close and personal, giving Tony no room to manoeuvre. Also, angry as Tony was, I don't think he really wanted to kill Steve, so he couldn't use his more lethal weapons, like those mini missiles.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Come on, he eats artillery shells and has enough strength to toss around SUVs. Steve had no business going H2H with Iron Man and lasting more than 5 seconds.
Remember, a lot of IM's feats are boosted by his rockets and his energy beams. Steve casually rips apart a solid tree stump, punches through a submarine window underwater and holds back a helicopter trying to take off. At a conservative estimate, he's at least 10 stronger than normal. He's not peak human, he's quite clearly superhuman. Also, as I already stated, he nullified Tony's biggest advantage - his manoeuvrability.
Tony is used to fighting from a distance, flying around at high speed and shooting lasers and missiles. When Steve cornered him and forced him into H2H he took Tony far out of his comfort zone and into the kind of combat Captain America excels in.
To be fair that tank shell did knock him for a loop. And in a deleted or extended scene it showed Tony did have bruises and stuff after the scuffle in the Middle East.
But yeah Cap should not have been able to do anything to him with just fisty cuffs. Maybe this was one of his inferior Iron Man 3 suits??????????
Mike Tyson was estimated to hit at "1,178-foot-pounds, or, 1,600 joules of energy".
Let's say Cap is 10 times stronger and hits 10 times harder, just for argument's sake. (There are people who worked it out, just Google the helicopter scene). It's a comic book movie and I'm not a physics major, so I'm trying to keep it simple. That means his punch generates about 16,000 joules of energy.
The muzzle energy of a heavy rifle firing a .50 BMG cartridge is about 15,000 joules. The muzzle energy of a heavy rifle firing a 14.5 × 114 mm cartridge (designed for the PTRS and PTRD anti-tank rifles) is about 32,000 joules.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_energy
In other words comic book movie physics would suggest when Cap hit Tony, repeatedly, from different angles, Tony was taking a hell of a lot of punishment.
Imagine this:
"An oft-cited 1985 study of Frank Bruno, who'd go on to be WBC heavyweight champ, showed he could punch with a force of 920 pounds in the lab. Researchers extrapolated that to a real-life blow of 1,420 pounds, enough to accelerate his opponent’s head at a rate of 53 g — that is, 53 times the force of gravity."
Now imagine that 10 times worse.
Except that, based on his flying feats throughout the films, such as his dogfight with the jets in IM1, his suit actually allows him to withstand 100s of Gs without any ill effects (according to Kyle Hill from Nerdist, who does the Because Science episodes, at least,). Like when he goes from supersonic to a dead stop in an instant. That kind of move would kill a normal person several times over.
Anyway, this is all largely irrelevant to the current fight. Even if we completely ignore any feats from the later films, Steve still has this.
Originally posted by juggerman
To be fair that tank shell did knock him for a loop. And in a deleted or extended scene it showed Tony did have bruises and stuff after the scuffle in the Middle East.
Deleted scenes aren't really considered canon. And in anyways, he took much more punishment in that battle than just the jet fire and the tank shell. He also had a missile blow up like a few feet away from him, crash landed from at least several hundred meters up, and even got hit by one of the jets with enough force to take half a wing off.
I'm not forgetting anything 😉 I'm simply trying to help you make sense of a scene you're having difficulty with.
Here are the facts: Steve DID beat the crap out of Tony. It IS a comic book movie. Therefore, I DO use a mix of real-life physics and speculation to explain the feats that take place on screen.
If you want to come up with another explanation that makes more sense, I'll be happy to listen. Until then, I'm going to stick with the explanation that makes the most sense to me. 😛
Now I just have to post this:
Originally posted by Psychotron
You don't get it. Iron Man has withstood .50 cal machine gun fire and a shot from a tank. Steve shouldn't be able to scratch the paint on his armor.
Even if you ignore all the inconsistencies and such with previous films (or even other moments in that film), Tony only lost because he decided to pause in his assault to give Cap a "final warning" to stand down. He had no real interest in fighting Steve, hence why he tried to use things like cuffs on him, or lasered the one arch to try and stop Steve from following him and Bucky. And then Cap still needed Bucky to distract Tony so he could attack him from behind. In a neutral setting, with both fighting at their hardest, I would back Iron Man 10/10.