Originally posted by Silent MasterMiyagi didn't prepare. He never practiced catching an arrow right before he did the feat. He got dressed and went to the position with his hands down and casually caught the arrow.
Which is more impressive, catching an arrow that you had plenty of time to prepare for or catching a crossbow bolt that was fired at you from behind during combat?
The arrow from the crossbow was huge in mass (solid metal) and volume (very thick). It also had no tail. Thus this arrow fired a lot slower than Miyagi's arrow. Also Sunny saw the crossbow shoot the arrow. It wasn't as if it was in midair before he turned around.
All of this along with the ease in which Miyagi did it shows that he could easily achieve Sunny's feat if he also turned and saw the arrow fire off. So Miyagi's catch was more impressive.
Originally posted by h1a8
Miyagi didn't prepare. He never practiced catching an arrow right before he did the feat. He got dressed and went to the position with his hands down and casually caught the arrow.The arrow from the crossbow was huge in mass (solid metal) and volume (very thick). It also had no tail. Thus this arrow fired a lot slower than Miyagi's arrow. Also Sunny saw the crossbow shoot the arrow. It wasn't as if it was in midair before he turned around.
All of this along with the ease in which Miyagi did it shows that he could easily achieve Sunny's feat if he also turned and saw the arrow fire off. So Miyagi's catch was more impressive.
I see, you either don't know what prepare means, you've never seen the movie or you're lying. Which is it?
Also, you honestly expect us to believe that you think 225fps is faster than 300fps? and that reacting to the faster object in less time is more impressive than reacting to a slower object in greater time?
Either you're not very smart of you're trolling. Which is it?
Originally posted by Silent Master
I see, you either don't know what prepare means, you've never seen the movie or you're lying. Which is it?Also, you honestly expect us to believe that you think 225fps is faster than 300fps? and that reacting to the faster object in less time is more impressive than reacting to a slower object in greater time?
Either you're not very smart of you're trolling. Which is it?
Every time I catch a part of an H1 post when someone quotes him, I have to facepalm. Either his eyes don't work properly, or he is blatantly lying, considering:
The bolt was in fact already mid-flight by the time Sunny had only started to turn. And this is plainly visible even without freezing the shot.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Every time I catch a part of an H1 post when someone quotes him, I have to facepalm. Either his eyes don't work properly, or he is blatantly lying, considering:[img]http://i.imgur.com/ObTm2yL.jpg[/img
The bolt was in fact already mid-flight by the time Sunny had only started to turn. And this is plainly visible even without freezing the shot.
Yep, h1 blatantly lied about what the scene showed in order to to claim what Miyagi did was more impressive.
What would you call knowingly lying about a scene in order to score a point in a debate?
Originally posted by Silent Master
What would you call knowingly lying about a scene in order to score a point in a debate?
Trolling. Which is why I put him on Ignore and generally try not to waste any time on him.
Here is another shot, from a frame or two earlier, where the arrow is again already in flight, and Sunny is clearly turned away from him, as we only see the back of his head.
Now just wait for H1 to come up with some nonsense excuse for his obvious dishonesty.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Trolling. Which is why I put him on Ignore and generally try not to waste any time on him.
Same here, which is why I laughed when he said that he never trolls. I then pointed out that the forum rules state that only what is shown on screen matters and thus every time he uses his "writer's intention" trumps all(including what the movies show) argument, he is actually trolling, as he's knowingly breaking the rules.
He didn't like that and ran away after I provided 6 examples.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Same here, which is why I laughed when he said that he never trolls. I then pointed out that the forum rules state that only what is shown on screen matters and thus every time he uses his "writer's intention" trumps all(including what the movies show) argument, he is actually trolling, as he's knowingly breaking the rules.He didn't like that and ran away after I provided 6 examples.
Also, with regard to the bolt itself. It didn't look any thicker than a normal crossbow bolt. Also, even if it was 100% metal, it might have been a lightweight composition. And we know that crossbow bolts travel much faster than arrows from a yomi bow. So, even if the weight of the the bolt and the lack of tail did slow it down, that still does not mean that it's actually slower than the arrow in question. Those factors could have decreased its speed by 60 fps and it would still have been faster. So, if he wants to claim that those factors actually made it significantly slower than the arrow Miyagi caught, the burden of proof is on him to show that as being the case. Which, straight off the bat, requires him to accurately identify exactly what kind of metallic composition the bolt was made out of. And I would not take a single claim of his at face value, regarding the bolt specs, as he has already shown a willingness to misrepresent the feat in order to downplay it.
It's also funny how he says "Miyagi didn't practice". Because this ancient Karate sensei just decided for the first time in his life one day to try and catch an arrow to prove something to his latest disciple.
Yet downplays Sunny catching an arrow fired at his back in the middle of a hectic combat situation, not a demonstration.
Originally posted by Silent Master
I see, you either don't know what prepare means, you've never seen the movie or you're lying. Which is it?Also, you honestly expect us to believe that you think 225fps is faster than 300fps? and that reacting to the faster object in less time is more impressive than reacting to a slower object in greater time?
Either you're not very smart of you're trolling. Which is it?
The crossbow bolt in the show that sunny caught was slower than a standard bolt. It was completely metal and much thicker.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerIn the next scene Sunny is facing the shooter as he begins to shoot. This contradicts the first scene. The latter scene makes the former irrelevant since that's the scene where he caught the arrow.
Trolling. Which is why I put him on Ignore and generally try not to waste any time on him.Here is another shot, from a frame or two earlier, where the arrow is again already in flight, and Sunny is clearly turned away from him, as we only see the back of his head.
Now just wait for H1 to come up with some nonsense excuse for his obvious dishonesty.
Originally posted by KingD19
It's also funny how he says "Miyagi didn't practice". Because this ancient Karate sensei just decided for the first time in his life one day to try and catch an arrow to prove something to his latest disciple.Yet downplays Sunny catching an arrow fired at his back in the middle of a hectic combat situation, not a demonstration.
Originally posted by h1a8
He never practiced catching an arrow right before he did the feat.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerThe mass was more than double a standard bolt is. This halfens the acceleration. The volume is more than double. This doubles the wind resistance.
Also, with regard to the bolt itself. It didn't look any thicker than a normal crossbow bolt. Also, even if it was 100% metal, it might have been a lightweight composition. And we know that crossbow bolts travel much faster than arrows from a yomi bow. So, even if the weight of the the bolt and the lack of tail did slow it down, that still does not mean that it's actually slower than the arrow in question. Those factors could have decreased its speed by 60 fps and it would still have been faster. So, if he wants to claim that those factors actually made it significantly slower than the arrow Miyagi caught, the burden of proof is on him to show that as being the case. Which, straight off the bat, requires him to accurately identify exactly what kind of metallic composition the bolt was made out of. And I would not take a single claim of his at face value, regarding the bolt specs, as he has already shown a willingness to misrepresent the feat in order to downplay it.
Originally posted by h1a8
The arrow from the crossbow was huge in mass (solid metal) and volume (very thick). It also had no tail. Thus this arrow fired a lot slower than Miyagi's arrow. Also Sunny saw the crossbow shoot the arrow. It wasn't as if it was in midair before he turned around.
There haven't been solid metal crossbow bolts for a long time. Modern crossbows will shoot "bolts" that are actually just short arrows that will be made of either aluminum or carbon. And these are hollow.
Crossbow arrows will be a lot shorter than Yumi arrows. Yumi arrows are some of the longest archery arrows. Longer arrows = heavier arrows. Heavier arrows = slower arrows. So a crossbow arrow being heavier than a yumi arrow is complete BS. Also, crossbow arrows have a "tail", just not as pronounced as Yumi arrows.
Yumi's seldom can shoot at 225 fps. You're looking at around 170 - 180 fps on average, whereas 300 fps is considered slow for crossbows. 350+ fps is a better average.
In short, crossbows will shoot about twice the speed of a yumi... on average.
Originally posted by h1a8
In the next scene Sunny is facing the shooter as he begins to shoot. This contradicts the first scene. The latter scene makes the former irrelevant since that's the scene where he caught the arrow.You didn't comprehend.
So by this logic, Bane only punched a fake pillar as it was clearly a prop when he punched it. Therefore it contradicted the prior scene when it was completely concrete, making the former irrelevant since that's the scene when he punched the fake pillar.
Originally posted by FrothByteNo one claimed that a standard bolt is heavier than a yumi arrow. I claimed that the bolt Sunny caught was significantly heavier and larger than a standard bolt. So if a standard bolt goes 300fps then THAT bolt went significantly less.
There haven't been solid metal crossbow bolts for a long time. Modern crossbows will shoot "bolts" that are actually just short arrows that will be made of either aluminum or carbon. And these are hollow.Crossbow arrows will be a lot shorter than Yumi arrows. Yumi arrows are some of the longest archery arrows. Longer arrows = heavier arrows. Heavier arrows = slower arrows. So a crossbow arrow being heavier than a yumi arrow is complete BS. Also, crossbow arrows have a "tail", just not as pronounced as Yumi arrows.
Yumi's seldom can shoot at 225 fps. You're looking at around 170 - 180 fps on average, whereas 300 fps is considered slow for crossbows. 350+ fps is a better average.
In short, crossbows will shoot about twice the speed of a yumi... on average.
Originally posted by KingD19This is faulty. We are not referring to material makeup but the order of events. If A happens before B in one scene but B happens before A in another then we have a contradiction.
So by this logic, Bane only punched a fake pillar as it was clearly a prop when he punched it. Therefore it contradicted the prior scene when it was completely concrete, making the former irrelevant since that's the scene when he punched the fake pillar.
And this thread isn't about Bane.
Originally posted by h1a8
No one claimed that a standard bolt is heavier than a yumi arrow. I claimed that the bolt Sunny caught was significantly heavier and larger than a standard bolt. So if a standard bolt goes 300fps then THAT bolt went significantly less.
And what proof have you that it was heavier? A thicker arrow does not necessarily mean it is heavier. A thick carbon arrow will still be lighter than a slim aluminum arrow.
Originally posted by KingD19
So by this logic, Bane only punched a fake pillar as it was clearly a prop when he punched it. Therefore it contradicted the prior scene when it was completely concrete, making the former irrelevant since that's the scene when he punched the fake pillar.
We don't see the Clipper fire again from the 2nd camera angle. Sunny blocks line of sight. All we hear is the whistle from the bolt and see the Clipper maintaining his firing posture. So, there is no visible cue in the second shot that actually contradicts the first. The ITB crew are very precise with their cinematography. If they shot him with his back turned as the bolt fired, and cut it into the scene, then they did it for a reason.
Originally posted by FrothByte
And what proof have you that it was heavier? A thicker arrow does not necessarily mean it is heavier. A thick carbon arrow will still be lighter than a slim aluminum arrow.
He is claiming it because it suits his nonsense argument. He also claimed the bolt didn't have a tail. But you can actually see the tail while Sunny is holding it.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
We don't see the Clipper fire again from the 2nd camera angle. Sunny blocks line of sight. All we hear is the whistle from the bolt and see the Clipper maintaining his firing posture. So, there is no visible cue in the second shot that actually contradicts the first. The ITB crew are very precise with their cinematography. If they shot him with his back turned as the bolt fired, and cut it into the scene, then they did it for a reason.
Oh you're absolutely right. But notice how when I applied that exacct same logic to Bane, he said it wasn't the same thing. He loves to twist any argument just enough so that he always seems right and you don't, hahaha it's so bad.