Originally posted by darthgooberI am certainly not dismissing the idea(though it would be hard for me to hold a line from a What If in higher regard than info from the actual series.) However, there are probably people out there who know a lot more about Sentry than me who might want to weigh-in here one way or the other.
What if taking out Ares that way WAS part of him wanting to be beaten? Think about it, let's suppose just for the sake of argument that that the Watcher's statement was accurate and Sentry ripping Ares was as involved as I hypothesized... wouldn't it be a LOT easier just to rid himself of the God by tossing him into the sun or something like that? If Sentry were at war with himself and just about ready to give into his suicidal urges, burning up WAY more energy than necessary just to take out Ares in a dramatic fashion could go a long way in regards to helping the heroes of Earth eventually defeat him.And don't get me wrong because I'm in no way pitching what I'm saying as being the "right" interpretation of events, at this point I'm just idly throwing out a way to tie everything together without dismissing anything.
This is why I wanted to point out that What If scene in the first place, though. It's the exact type of thing that needs to be discussed here. 👆
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
@GalanAlso got confirmed in the interview with Bendis, iirc. Scot must have the link on hand.
Apologies for the late reply. So here is the part of the interview in question.
In this scene, Thor finally ends the threat of the Void AKA Bob Reynolds by killing him. It seems like when you consider the Void’s power level, the only way this could have happened was because the Void wanted to die.
I see there is a lot of online speculation about that, and I thought it was pretty clear. I don’t like to over analyze these things. I prefer the work to speak for itself, but I’ll put two things out there.
I think we’ve all met crazy people in our lives, and I think you learn pretty quickly that when you’re dealing with a crazy person, you can’t trust what they’re saying to be true. Just because the Sentry/The Void announced that he had the power of the Molecule Man, it doesn’t mean that he actually did. He just thought that he did. He was a crazy person and maybe a drug addict, as the character’s creator, Paul Jenkins, put out there. So not everything he was saying wasn’t necessarily true. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn’t. I know that’s difficult for some people, because when they read a story, they don’t want to feel like they’re being ****ed with. That character, though, was not in control of himself. There wasn’t one second throughout the run of “Dark Avengers” where he was in control of himself.
Number two, yes, Bob realized that things had gone as far as they could possibly go. There was no other end for him and without his cooperation he doesn’t go away. I just didn’t want to have a line in the script where someone like Spider-Woman goes, “Boy, if he didn’t want us to kill him, we couldn’t have killed him.” I see a lot of people got it, though, or they were just so happy to see the Sentry die they didn’t give a shit how it happened [Laughs].
And here is the link.
Originally posted by Phil
You're using random terms like thrust - as if somebody teleported 616 Logan into an alternate Universe to beat 616 Hulk, who was somewhat also teleported there. No.616 Logan wasn't thrust into anything. A new version of Logan in a new version of the Universe fighting a new version of Hulk was created, the moment the change occured. 616 Logan and the Logan who killed Hulk are two distinct beings, living in different Universes, fighting different Hulks.
Aaaaanyway, this is circles. Sorry leo, but we'll agree to disagree.
fair enuff, but you're sort of skirting the main issue. they ARE different--for one thing they are both dead in that universe. but they became different ONLY after the decision is made. until then they are exactly the same, hence new logan's abilities and history were the same as our logan's. did they change in that instant the universe split? why would they? did he get a new history all of a sudden? maybe you think so, but i don't know why you would because he shared logan's history until that instant....
anyway, you're right--we likely won't agree. and to reiterate--i'm not advocating using what ifs all the time. hell, they'd rarely be applicable. but in some cases where depictions are the same as normal or the changes don't result in a change i don't see why they should be declared unusable as a standard. /shrug
@abhi--again, you're right, (as is phil) there are a lot of cases where what happens in what ifs is pretty ridiculous. those aren't the issues i'm talking about though.
@bada--the thread idea came from the odin/darkseid thread with the discussion of the usability of the great darkness saga to support darkseid. recent changes to dc canon would seem to indicate almost every showing is now canon even showings that at one time may have been disallowed.
my thought was we should discuss seeing if there was a way we could reconsider SOME showings in marvel (and dc is it came up) to try and...even things maybe? or at least come up with a list of showings/arcs that are considered controversial to start a discussion about them. discussions been very good and respectful so far, so not sure if someone reported things or what, but.....nothing to see here. we are not the droids you're looking for.....
9img]https://media.giphy.com/media/l2JJKs3I69qfaQleE/giphy.gif[/img]
anyway, i'm genuinely curious about other arcs people are concerned about or feel maybe should be considered fair game in debates but maybe are afraid to bring up. thoughts or ideas?
any other ideas on alt universes vs alt timelines and how they are different--if they ARE different? is there proof somewhere that universes can be born that did NOT originate in 616? (i...sort of know there is, just looking to try and better establish the differences we've talked about....)
really would like to know some more arcs people would like to look at though. 👆
Originally posted by leonidasRemember the S/B arc where this happened:
anyway, i'm genuinely curious about other arcs people are concerned about or feel maybe should be considered fair game in debates but maybe are afraid to bring up. thoughts or ideas?
[ignore translations, it's what I found on google from work]
Yeah, this one. It's basic time-travel dystopia.
regarding phil's scan: i've always been a little confused on the issue of superman/batman in general (forgetting that absolute power arc) and it's relevance to canon. is it usually considered canon, and are feats from there usually admissible here? given the recent changes at dc, it would seem to indicate that superman/batman WOULD be viable in the forum. certainly with darkseid's appearances, it would seem to indicate THOSE issues at least would be canon to darkseid, no? and darkseid made an appearance in one of those alt timelines supes and bats were bouncing through. would THAT appearance also be canon to him??
and while we're on the topic of the canonicity of superman/batman, what about trinity? usable in the forum? arguments for why, or why not? (or are both only NOW usable given recent events in dc...?)
Originally posted by leonidasI thought it was settled that alternate timelines referenced in canon timelines had a chance for consideration, or characters like Mxy who regularly traverse dimensions/timelines..
don't encourage him. sneersince you're checking things out bada, do you know if certain what ifs and alt timelines CAN be argued for within the rules?