Originally posted by panthergod
Lol you're just lying at this point.
I don't see why you are having a go at carver. You've hardly made a good argument for your side as it is. Basically just being rude to me and carver for some reason.
Which is something I'd suggest you soon rectify.
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And I noticed Sin had already posted the images I mentioned so thanks for that.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Why are you so intent for Superman to be the inspiration behind every character in such a huge way? I gave a perfectly good reason as to why Sentry is a pastiche of sorts to Miracleman but instead of addressing that you jump to oh well Miracleman is obviously a Superman derivative which is completely missing the point.I could go back to fiction before Superman and find something from any medium where a character forgets his identity and call Superman a derivative of that. But it wouldn't be true. By some extent Superman has such a vast history you can pick many characters and find one thing they share with Superman and say well he's a Superman copy.
Nobody is denying and I have never said (and you can ask anyone on this forum) that heroes like Superman (as in the caped flying Superhero etc etc) probably wouldn't be around as much if not for Superman and the impact he had. But just because characters share characteristics doesn't instantly mean they have to be a direct clone. There comes a point where denying certain similarities is something I wouldn't do because I would be disingenuous.
But I think you are confusing sharing characteristics by element of nature to direct derivation. Does any character with a red and blue costume mean it was inspired by Superman for example? Red and Blue are some of the most popular colours in the world so many designers would be bound to choose them. Doesn't mean they have Superman in mind every millisecond that they use their brain to design does it?
..so just disingenuous obfuscation to avoid acknowledging facts you cannot refute then? Ok.
Moore s first Miracleman arc (a well as elements later found in Watchmen and Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow)is a virtual plagarism of the novel Superfolks featuring a clear superman analog/parody coming out of retirement and fighting his evil counterpart.
So yes Sentry is a 5th gen Superman ripoff with elements from OTHER Superman analogues.. With a twist. No amount of deflections and strawman to avoid the facts will change that.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I don't see why you are having a go at carver. You've hardly made a good argument for your side as it is. Basically just being rude to me and carver for some reason.Which is something I'd suggest you soon rectify.
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And I noticed Sin had already posted the images I mentioned so thanks for that.
The facts I've presented haven't been disputed on the merits merely ignored by people who don't know Superman that well. So they stand. My pointing out blatant lies at this point also stands. At this point its some people putting fingers in their ears deliberately ignorings facts and me calling it out with facts. I've made specific citations refuted the visual argument and Miracleman is a ripoff of two separate analog/ ripofffs. Including a legally proven one. Refute the facts I've brought to the table or acknowledge your stance has zero merit. To deny Sentry status as a Superman ripoff is laughable intellectually dishonest anti Superman bias. Nothing more.
Originally posted by panthergod
..so just disingenuous obfuscation to avoid acknowledging facts you cannot refute then? Ok.Moore s first Miracleman arc (a well as elements later found in Watchmen and Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow)is a virtual plagarism of the novel Superfolks featuring a clear superman analog/parody coming out of retirement and fighting his evil counterpart.
So yes Sentry is a 5th gen Superman ripoff with elements from OTHER Superman analogues.. With a twist. No amount of deflections and strawman to avoid the facts will change that.
You aren't even reading my messages are you? Show me where I denied any of that?
Originally posted by panthergod
The facts I've presented haven't been disputed on the merits merely ignored by people who don't know Superman that well. So they stand. My pointing out blatant lies at this point also stands. At this point its some people putting fingers in their ears deliberately ignorings facts and me calling it out with facts. I've made specific citations refuted the visual argument and Miracleman is a ripoff of two separate analog/ ripofffs. Including a legally proven one. Refute the facts I've brought to the table or acknowledge your stance has zero merit. To deny Sentry status as a Superman ripoff is laughable intellectually dishonest anti Superman bias. Nothing more.
My stance is that it's obvious he isn't a rip off. Shares similarities yes just like a lot of characters do which I mentioned. It really would do you some good if you actually read what I said.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
My stance is that it's obvious he isn't a rip off. Shares similarities yes just like a lot of characters do which I mentioned. It really would do you some good if you actually read what I said.
👆
You are btw the reason why I like Sentry and changed my view on him 😉.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
^Sin, he is a Superman homage because the creator had Superman in Mind while creating him. Miracle Man is also a homage to CM who is a Superman-clone, or someone who was created to be like Superman. But I wouldn't say these days that he is a ripp off, rather he is influenced by chars like Superman, MM and such.
According to the link below, that's not so much the case.
http://www.rickveitch.com/?s=sentry
"Jenkins and I had envisioned SENTRY as a completely original mid-level superhero, on the level of IRON MAN or DAREDEVIL. In the series he became one of the most powerful characters in the Marvel Universe; pretty much a SUPERMAN clone dressed in the requisite cape and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound etc."
Sentry eventually became Superman-like later on and based solely on power level and cape. Starting at the bottom of the page, one can see that the concept started with the desire for a drug addled character and the original concept art was quite different.