Originally posted by Juntai
Wikis are not evidence on the forum. Until you stop using them and start using actual comics to back up your stances, no one will take anything you say seriously.If you want to prove The End was a multiversal story, open up a comic and show us where, because Marvel's stance is that it's an alternate universes' future and only affected that universe. Earth-4321.
As such, people outside of that universe, like Adam Warlock when it was absorbed were unaffected.
Moreover, Thanos made death permanent, which also does not apply to the main Marvel Universe.
Hmmm, probably i should. There goes your first one.
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The Multiverse taken form....Multiversal being!
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Specifically stated that he is multiversal because he rules over universes. It is stated that he is simultaniously in all universes, but that doesn't mean he is a universal being.
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"The Tribunal would have destroyed earth and it's reality"-Dr.Strange. A reality is equals to a universe. He would destroy Earth's universe meaning he is above Universal scale. Unlike Eternity where his powers are limited to that universe, for he is the universe.
I could keep uploading extracts of comics all day and keep proving you my point just as i did with the Wiki link. Here i leave you a like of a GOOD youtube channel which explains comics and characters so you can better inform yourself. AND DON'T COME AND TELL ME THAT IT ISN'T EVIDENCE NOR VALID! Because the dude explains his points while showing comics, so it is pretty valid!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwDlc9LeoTQ - Comics Explain.
After reading this, now you give me a SINGLE comic in where it is said that the Tribunal is a Universal being; i doubt you can find one.
Originally posted by Juntai
Right, instead of the Gauntlet, where he had the ability to control externally, he instead became it.Beating LT doesn't change the scope of the story, as the Tribunal has M-Bodies in every universe. There isn't anything in the story that suggests it was more than one.
Damning evidence is that people that were outside of the universe at the time he was absorbing it were all just fine, beyond his power and his awareness. "Adam Warlock, only you could miss the end of the universe." http://imgur.com/ASeMCMu
But moreover, it's that none of this matters, because universe, and even multiverse power are still below the Cosmic Armor.
Yes, he became the supreme being right below the actual one above all.
Yes, but he still easily defeated the multiversal entity LT. He didnt destroy Marvel multiverse but he did defeat its emboidment/protector.
Why? Its not meant to be a sarcastic or loaded question, why are those powers so inconceivably below the armors capabilities?
Originally posted by leonidas
ffs stop posting handbooks/wikis as proof. meaningless AND against the rules.
Evidence is evidence. If the Wiki shows evidence proving it's points isn't meaningless. The only reason i used the wiki is because i want to save myself from going to find the evidence myself. But either way i did now so you can see the Wiki isn't wrong.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Yes, but he still easily defeated the multiversal entity LT. He didnt destroy Marvel multiverse but he did defeat its emboidment/protector.
You are right, Thanos didn't destroy the Multiverse. But he did in a way. By destroying the LT it means that the multiverse is without protector. Also remeber that the LT is the strongest being in the Multiverse, so that means that Thanos with the HOTU is now the strongest and is above the multiverse.
The dude just doesn't get the powers of the HOTU.
Yes, we've been through this. Tribunal is the embodiment of the multiverse.
However, he acts through M-Bodies. One in each universe.
The End took place in a single universe. Plot points introduced within it, such as Death being absolute, took place within Earth-4321, as Death is not absolute in 616.
Adam Warlock, being outside of the universe in this story, was outside of Thanos' awareness, and his absorbing the universe.
There is nothing in the story that suggests it was more than a universe outside of you wanting it to be because of the inclusion of the Tribunal.
The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe 2006 says the events of The End take place in Earth-4321.
As shown here, even Marvel's senior editor agrees that it's not-canon to the main Marvel Universe. Moreover, that it was never intended to be so.
Originally posted by Juntai
Yes, we've been through this. Tribunal is the embodiment of the multiverse.
However, he acts through M-Bodies. One in each universe.The End took place in a single universe. Plot points introduced within it, such as Death being absolute, took place within Earth-4321, as Death is not absolute in 616.
Adam Warlock, being outside of the universe in this story, was outside of Thanos' awareness, and his absorbing the universe.
There is nothing in the story that suggests it was more than a universe outside of you wanting it to be because of the inclusion of the Tribunal.
The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe 2006 says the events of The End take place in Earth-4321.
As shown here, even Marvel's senior editor agrees that it's not-canon to the main Marvel Universe. Moreover, that it was never intended to be so.
Okay yes, there is one Living Tribunal in each universe. But this is expected because the Living Tribunal is Omnipresent. Again, this doesn't mean that the Living Tribunal as a being is at a universal scale. The title multiversal means that he has the power to affect other universe. For instance, Eternity is at a universal power scale. For if there is one eternity in every Universe, each is their own character. (Earth 616 Eternity and Earth 617 eternity although being the same entity, both are different characters). The Tribunal on the other had although being in every universe, is ONE WHOLE character; One Living Tribunal for the entire Multiverse.
By the HOTU killing the Tribunal implies that is above Multiversal scale because it defeated the embodyment of the Multiverse (LT). So, am not wrong here.
Originally posted by Magnon
Tribunal is NOT the embodiment of the multiverse, that was just a misconception by the writer. Living Tribunal is exactly what his name implies, the supreme judge over all that exists.
Not a literal embodiment of the Multiverse (Like for instance Eternity which is an embodiment it's universe). But by embodiment it means it represents the Multiverse. It is the protector of all that there is/the multiverse.
Originally posted by Josh_AlexanderSorry, it's clear that this isn't supported. The End comics only refer to universe, its events don't affect 616 Universe, as I've mentioned about making Death absolute not affecting 616, and Warlock being outside of the universe left him unaffected and beyond Thanos' awareness. add that to the OHOTMU and Marvel's editor both say it's alternate timeline, and only in that timeline.
Okay yes, there is one Living Tribunal in each universe. But this is expected because the Living Tribunal is Omnipresent. Again, this doesn't mean that the Living Tribunal as a being is at a universal scale. The title multiversal means that he has the power to affect other universe. For instance, Eternity is at a universal power scale. For if there is one eternity in every Universe, each is their own character. (Earth 616 Eternity and Earth 617 eternity although being the same entity, both are different characters). The Tribunal on the other had although being in every universe, is ONE WHOLE character; One Living Tribunal for the entire Multiverse.By the HOTU killing the Tribunal implies that is above Multiversal scale because it defeated the embodyment of the Multiverse (LT). So, am not wrong here.
How you reconcile that is up to you, but it's very clear it's one universe and an alternate one.
Originally posted by Josh_AlexanderHe is certainly Multiversal in the Multiversal Eternity in Universe Iteration 8 as of Ultimates on sale last year. He still got killed by Chaos and Order.
Hmmm, probably i should. There goes your first one.[/URL][/IMG]
The Multiverse taken form....Multiversal being!
[/URL][/IMG]
Specifically stated that he is multiversal because he rules over universes. It is stated that he is simultaniously in all universes, but that doesn't mean he is a universal being.
[/URL][/IMG]
"The Tribunal would have destroyed earth and it's reality"-Dr.Strange. A reality is equals to a universe. He would destroy Earth's universe meaning he is above Universal scale. Unlike Eternity where his powers are limited to that universe, for he is the universe.
I could keep uploading extracts of comics all day and keep proving you my point just as i did with the Wiki link. Here i leave you a like of a GOOD youtube channel which explains comics and characters so you can better inform yourself. AND DON'T COME AND TELL ME THAT IT ISN'T EVIDENCE NOR VALID! Because the dude explains his points while showing comics, so it is pretty valid!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwDlc9LeoTQ - Comics Explain.
After reading this, now you give me a SINGLE comic in where it is said that the Tribunal is a Universal being; i doubt you can find one.
Originally posted by Juntai
Sorry, it's clear that this isn't supported. The End comics only refer to universe, its events don't affect 616 Universe, as I've mentioned about making Death absolute not affecting 616, and Warlock being outside of the universe left him unaffected and beyond Thanos' awareness. add that to the OHOTMU and Marvel's editor both say it's alternate timeline, and only in that timeline.How you reconcile that is up to you, but it's very clear it's one universe and an alternate one.
One universe and an alternate one that's right. But within the Marvel "universe", the canon one, the multiverse works that way. The Living Tribunal as judge of the Multiverse, and an entity for every universe within the marvel multiverse.
What happens on other stories, remains in other stories (Like Adam warlock becoming LT in the alternate universe).
Originally posted by Juntai😐 . . . WTF? ... Mr M, shall return.
Yes, we've been through this. Tribunal is the embodiment of the multiverse.
However, he acts through M-Bodies. One in each universe.The End took place in a single universe. Plot points introduced within it, such as Death being absolute, took place within Earth-4321, as Death is not absolute in 616.
Adam Warlock, being outside of the universe in this story, was outside of Thanos' awareness, and his absorbing the universe.
There is nothing in the story that suggests it was more than a universe outside of you wanting it to be because of the inclusion of the Tribunal.
The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe 2006 says the events of The End take place in Earth-4321.
As shown here, even Marvel's senior editor agrees that it's not-canon to the main Marvel Universe. Moreover, that it was never intended to be
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Yeah Eternity in the current continuity has become Multiversal. And, Yes, Chaos and Order killed the tribunal. But once again i don't believe the Tribunal is dead, he is simply not taking part in the events of the Ultimates. Again no cosmic balance is being upset, and therefore the Tribunal isn't needed nor does it get involve.
Originally posted by Josh_AlexanderBrevoort actually addresses the claim that beating Tribunal gives this story legitimacy because of Tribunal being multiversal in the link I gave you.
One universe and an alternate one that's right. But within the Marvel "universe", the canon one, the multiverse works that way. The Living Tribunal as judge of the Multiverse, and an entity for every universe within the marvel multiverse.What happens on other stories, remains in other stories (Like Adam warlock becoming LT in the alternate universe).
He says it has no relevance to mainstream Marvel, obviously showing a disconnect between this portrayal of LT, and the mainstream one.
They assign it a universe number, as they do with what-ifs and alternate timelines, but "The End" are just contained imaginary stories. Nothing from this story affected anything other than a single universe in an imaginary story where rules can be bent and broken.
Originally posted by Juntai
Brevoort actually addresses the claim that beating Tribunal gives this story legitimacy because of Tribunal being multiversal in the link I gave you.He says it has no relevance to mainstream Marvel, obviously showing a disconnect between this portrayal of LT, and the mainstream one.
They assign it a universe number, as they do with what-ifs and alternate timelines, but "The End" are just contained imaginary stories. Nothing from this story affected anything other than a single universe in an imaginary story where rules can be bent and broken.
Ofcourse. I get that. We agree in something 😂 😂
Well, to "ME" again HOTU should win. But again this is my opinion, and i respect yours. 😉
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
His own stories. Not whats going on in the current universe. The story of Warlock becoming the Tribunal happens in another reality, and has no relation with the events that occur after Secret Wars. For instance, the Living Tribunal that appears in the Ultimates (which is a canon story) isn't Adam Warlock, proving that Starlin's story hasn't been taken into consideration.
Ewing outright stated that it was hinted to be Adam Warlock LT recently in Ultimates 9.
Originally posted by JuntaiTom B's words mean nothing. On his formsprings, he's said the End was and wasnt canon in the space of a few posts.
Brevoort actually addresses the claim that beating Tribunal gives this story legitimacy because of Tribunal being multiversal in the link I gave you.He says it has no relevance to mainstream Marvel, obviously showing a disconnect between this portrayal of LT, and the mainstream one.
They assign it a universe number, as they do with what-ifs and alternate timelines, but "The End" are just contained imaginary stories. Nothing from this story affected anything other than a single universe in an imaginary story where rules can be bent and broken.
Plus the fact the story was linked to and references several other canon stories. It's also shown in recent Thanos books.