I won't go so far as to say that it's actually "funny", but there is a slightly humorous irony to this situation that I feel is worth pointing out. Ever since Trump started his campaign the words "Nazi" and "white supremacist" have been thrown around very loosely by the left. Now they showed up to disrupt an event with ACTUAL Nazis and white supremacist gathered en masse... and someone died. I wonder how many SJWs will bother to note the difference?
Originally posted by jaden101
Appeasement and willfully ignoring Nazis worked so well, historically.
Lol, what a bullshit response. We aren't giving them anything they didn't already have. They have the right to hold rallies.
With Hitler they appeased him by letting him take more and more and more. More than he already had.
Originally posted by jaden101
Appeasement and willfully ignoring Nazis worked so well, historically.
Pretty sure no one was saying "We'll just look the other way while you stoke the ovens.." There's the whole propaganda thing, and as far as your average German was concerned Hitler was great for the economy..
Remember, for a time Nazi Germany was seen as a model civilization. There was a lot that only came to light when it was too late (Not that it excuses our slowness to respond when it was obvious what was going on..)
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
The ultimate end game of Nazi idealism is to create some sort of racial utopia, the same way that the ultimate end game of Communists is to create a worker's utopia, the same way that the ultimate end game of Islamists is to create an Islamic utopia. And then in pursuing their goals, all three have historically murdered to do so.That doesn't make a non violent white nationalist/supremacist/nazi demonstrator any more murderous than a non violent communist protester etc.
The difference is that the racial utopia that Nazis and Neo Nazis want is only possible by murdering those who don't contain the desired racial traits. Communism has no such requirement as it's not racially motivated. Communism requires everyone to be communist, but you can theoretically achieve that by changing minds. No such possibility exists for Naziism, as if someone is Mexican, they can't change their mind and stop being Mexican.
Islamists have no end game as the group is too large and diverse and individualistic to gauge. You can be a Muslim without being a Muslim extremist. The same is not true for Naziism, Naziism is an inherently extreme ideology.
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
@ jaden you're comparing the 3rd reich to a bunch of loud mouthed rednecks with signs...?
There is no practical difference between a member of the 3rd reich and a modern day Neo Nazi. They both want and believe the same thing. The only difference is the amount of power they have.
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
The ultimate end game of Nazi idealism is to create some sort of racial utopia, the same way that the ultimate end game of Communists is to create a worker's utopia, the same way that the ultimate end game of Islamists is to create an Islamic utopia. And then in pursuing their goals, all three have historically murdered to do so.That doesn't make a non violent white nationalist/supremacist/nazi demonstrator any more murderous than a non violent communist protester etc.
Racial or ideological supremacy in general is fundamentally and and thus flawed concept with no morality. Racial segregation leads to isolationistic tendencies and a tribal hatred for anything that deviates from social norms. THE most modern example of this failure is not Islam, it's not even Stalin's Soviet Union, It is indeed Hitler's Nazi Germany. People saw first hand what the Nazi Ideology meant. The European portion of World War 2 proved it. Nobody thought any conflict in the world would ever match the Great War in terms of brutality and barbarism, but Hitler not only matched, then exceeded it, but he went on to double, triple then quadruple down on the f@cknuttery of it.
Nazi Concentration Camps are what the Nazi's envision for anyone who does not conform to their idealism, and they went ahead and actually DID it. And here's the kicker, the Nazi's had no reason to do any of it other than "We felt like it". They can't blame it on the Treaty of Versailles, as the Germans were incredibly antagonistic during World War 1 as well. so Hitler really had no reason outside of his own ideals to do what he did.
Stalin was just as nuts, but he was partly restrained by fear of another revolution that claimed the Tsar. The Islamists (Not the extremists mind you) hold grudges with everyone, and their grudges with the west is abandonment issues from the 80s when the Soviet Union collapsed and were forced to pull out. The nazi's had 0% reasonable cause.
So, there you have your reasons as to why nazi's, in any form, are universally despised and should never ever be supported in any way. ANYONE who supports Hitler's exact ideology is a fool, an enemy of humanity, or both.
Originally posted by cdtm
Pretty sure no one was saying "We'll just look the other way while you stoke the ovens.." There's the whole propaganda thing, and as far as your average German was concerned Hitler was great for the economy..Remember, for a time Nazi Germany was seen as a model civilization. There was a lot that only came to light when it was too late (Not that it excuses our slowness to respond when it was obvious what was going on..)
That is the thing, nobody is saying ignore the horrible nazis. We just don't ignore the shitheads on the other side.
Typically white nationalists want an ethtnostate but are vague as **** on how to implement it, and hide behind pseudo intellectual posturing like saying they don't hate other races they just believe they have their differences and want to separate. That moron Richard Spencer legit wants to get non whites to leave X area that WN's would move to, and thinks that he can pay them to leave lmfao
Originally posted by BackFire
The difference is that the racial utopia that Nazis and Neo Nazis want is only possible by murdering those who don't contain the desired racial traits. Communism has no such requirement as it's not racially motivated. Communism requires everyone to be communist, but you can theoretically achieve that by changing minds. No such possibility exists for Naziism, as if someone is Mexican, they can't change their mind and stop being Mexican.Islamists have no end game as the group is too large and diverse and individualistic to gauge. You can be a Muslim without being a Muslim extremist. The same is not true for Naziism, Naziism is an inherently extreme ideology.
There is no practical difference between a member of the 3rd reich and a modern day Neo Nazi. They both want and believe the same thing. The only difference is the amount of power they have.
So every white supremecist wants to murder non aryans?
Or just neo nazi's? I admit I'm not too famaliar with white nationalist groups, and don't know if there's an actual Neo Nazi group with open murderous ambitions, of if that's just a term used to discribe any nationalist group from Tea Baggers to Stormfront losers..
Originally posted by cdtm
So every white supremecist wants to murder non aryans?Or just neo nazi's? I admit I'm not too famaliar with white nationalist groups, and don't know if there's an actual Neo Nazi group with open murderous ambitions, of if that's just a term used to discribe any nationalist group from Tea Baggers to Stormfront losers..
I'm specifically referring to Neo Nazis, which are themselves an individual group within the white supremacist movement. They are literally nazis updated for the modern age.
The KKK is about just as bad, they have their own history of murder and lynching, but they are a different organization.
Then you have the vague white nationalists, who may or may not be in favor of ethnic cleansing, or who may just want to tout white pride and what not.
Originally posted by BackFire
The difference is that the racial utopia that Nazis and Neo Nazis want is only possible by murdering those who don't contain the desired racial traits. Communism has no such requirement as it's not racially motivated. Communism requires everyone to be communist, but you can theoretically achieve that by changing minds. No such possibility exists for Naziism, as if someone is Mexican, they can't change their mind and stop being Mexican.
Point being, you cannot implicate a neonazi in a crime they have not committed just because their ideology is abhorrent. If they have not violated the rights of anyone else with their actions (which those who have committed violence have), there is no excuse for violating their rights by rescinding their right to assembly or preemptively committing violence against them (as the guy who suckerpunched Richard Spencer did or as the Antifa members who started a fight with a pro-Trump mob in Berkeley have done) regardless of how morally repugnant their ideology is.
Originally posted by carthage
Typically white nationalists want an ethtnostate but are vague as **** on how to implement it, and hide behind pseudo intellectual posturing like saying they don't hate other races they just believe they have their differences and want to separate. That moron Richard Spencer legit wants to get non whites to leave X area that WN's would move to, and thinks that he can pay them to leave lmfao
And Antifa acts the same way with the pseudo intellectual bullshit. They truly believe they are anti-fascism lol. Even as they block folk from entering places because they disagree with them politically. Even as they crack folk over the skull with bike locks, toss molotov cocktails, etc.
They are abhorrent pieces of shit, right? Truly you can hate nazis and acknowledge that. I sure can.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Theoretically, you can excuse white nationalists by the same token that you can excuse communists though. If white nationalists' end goal is a white nation, then that could be achieved by segregating people into ethnostates or uniracial nations, without necessarily requiring the deaths of non-white people.Point being, you cannot implicate a neonazi in a crime they have not committed just because their ideology is abhorrent. If they have not violated the rights of anyone else with their actions (which those who have committed violence have), there is no excuse for violating their rights by rescinding their right to assembly or preemptively committing violence against them (as the guy who suckerpunched Richard Spencer did or as the Antifa members who started a fight with a pro-Trump mob in Berkeley have done) regardless of how morally repugnant their ideology is.
I'm not talking about all white nationalists, I'm specifically talking about Neo Nazis right now. Murder is the only way to achieve the goal of Neo Nazis.
I never said anything about rescinding their rights, though. I simply said they are all evil and believe in a murderous ideology. Never said anything about removing their right to protest.