Iron Fist vs Captain America

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Thing is, Cap isn't stupid. He's been in enough scuffles with all kinds of enemies to know that when your opponent's one fist suddenly starts glowing, it's probably something best avoided.

Indeed he would.

Which wouldn't help him much in the comic, because Iron Fist is written as a top tier martial artist who happens to have a super charged fist. Danny wouldn't go swinging wildly in comic as he did against Elektra, he'd light that sucker up and let Cap try and come to him.. (And it isn't supposed to be a big swing haymaker anyways. Chi amp should let a little quick jab turn Cage airborn, as the chi's doing all the work and not the momentum of the fist..)

TV Danny is written more like an upper mid range martial artist who relies on the fist to bail him out. I guess the TV people, whether it was script writers, producers, or whoever, figured Matt would be irrelevent if Danny was at his level, plus had the chi smash, hence the brief scuffle with Matt having a clear advantage.

Without an Iron Fist, these things are true:

1. Guards can be broken.

2. Grapples are VERY hard to avoid (Even in boxing, how often to clinch's happen?)

So there's no way Cap is guarding against an Iron Fist with anything but his shield. And avoiding it should be pretty difficult, because Cap isn't a hummingbird and Danny isn't an elephant.. They're pretty comparable in speed. All Danny really needs to do is rush him (Not like an idiot, but intelligently), grab him, and pound him

Cap's main advantage is the shield, for attack and defense. While Danny basically has Mjolnir attached to his hand, and can attack/defend with it just as easily as normal attacks, because it's still his hand..

^ just want to point out that Cap was able to avoid Winter Soldier's knife just fine.

Originally posted by FrothByte
^ just want to point out that Cap was able to avoid Winter Soldier's knife just fine.

Street cheese. Danny blocked a bullet. 😛

But like I said, "comparable speed."

Tbh, Winter Soldier should crush Cap.. Like, literally crush. Just catch his damned punch and clamp down on his knuckles/rip his arm out of socket.

Originally posted by cdtm
Street cheese. Danny blocked a bullet. 😛

But like I said, "comparable speed."

Tbh, Winter Soldier should crush Cap.. Like, literally crush. Just catch his damned punch and clamp down on his knuckles/rip his arm out of socket.

And Bucky has on multiple occasions blocked "multiple automatic rounds" with his arm. So he's faster than Danny by a good amount.

And Cap easily blocked Mjolnir. He's gonna either dodge or block the shiny glowing energy hand. And if/when he blocks with the shield, Danny's gonna get all that force rebounded right back at him.

Sure, if he turtles, and Danny is stupid enough to play in to his trap (And assuming the shield deflect magic, though I've no doubt it can block it.) Thor, for example, only needed to grab the shield with his bare hands and overpower Cap..

All things equal and assuming both fight intelligently, I'd much rather have a sword then a shield..

Captain America stomps him. I don't even know how this is a fight. He's facing someone as strong as Luke Cage, more skilled than Daredevil, faster than Electra and overall a superior athlete.

This would be like vs. Batroc except Iron Fist would hit the shield for a huge shockwave after getting his ass kicked. And Steve can tank an Iron Fist so even if it lands it's not an auto win. But a single shield bash to Rand's hit would knock him out.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Captain America stomps him. I don't even know how this is a fight. He's facing someone as strong as Luke Cage, more skilled than Daredevil, faster than Electra and overall a superior athlete.

This would be like vs. Batroc except Iron Fist would hit the shield for a huge shockwave after getting his ass kicked. And Steve can tank an Iron Fist so even if it lands it's not an auto win. But a single shield bash to Rand's hit would knock him out.

Cap wins but Cap isn't as strong as Luke Cage if you look at the average showings.

Steve can't take a IF if Danny doesn't hold back.

Originally posted by cdtm
Sure, if he turtles, and Danny is stupid enough to play in to his trap (And assuming the shield deflect magic, though I've no doubt it can block it.) Thor, for example, only needed to grab the shield with his bare hands and overpower Cap..

All things equal and assuming both fight intelligently, I'd much rather have a sword then a shield..

He doesn't need to turtle. Just bring the shield up and block like he has done multiple people for multiple movies.

And Danny is stupid enough to fall into his trap. He's a f*cking idiot and its shown as well as mentioned by almost everyone he comes into contact with in both IF and Defenders.

The Thor example of overpowering Cap is useless here as Cap can rag doll Danny if he felt like it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Cap wins but Cap isn't as strong as Luke Cage if you look at the average showings.

Steve can't take a IF if Danny doesn't hold back.

I did and he's definitely as strong.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Captain America stomps him. I don't even know how this is a fight. He's facing someone as strong as Luke Cage, more skilled than Daredevil, faster than Electra and overall a superior athlete.

None of those things are true. 😆

Originally posted by KingD19
He doesn't need to turtle. Just bring the shield up and block like he has done multiple people for multiple movies.

And Danny is stupid enough to fall into his trap. He's a f*cking idiot and its shown as well as mentioned by almost everyone he comes into contact with in both IF and Defenders.

The Thor example of overpowering Cap is useless here as Cap can rag doll Danny if he felt like it.

Danny's just ignorant of social norms. Virtually everything he's done is both well meaning and helpful.

You can make more of an argument that Batman turns everything to crap then you could Danny, who's only ever tried to help people and been open to changing his approach (From beating up hoods (Or "people trying to feed their families", as Cage put it) to going after board CEO's..)

When it comes to fighting, he's top notch. Very near Matt's skill, with a megaton punch that would knock even Cap on his ass (Who's being way overwanked in this thread. He's a half step above Matt at best, not Wonder Man.)

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Captain America stomps him. I don't even know how this is a fight. He's facing someone as strong as Luke Cage, more skilled than Daredevil, faster than Electra and overall a superior athlete.

This would be like vs. Batroc except Iron Fist would hit the shield for a huge shockwave after getting his ass kicked. And Steve can tank an Iron Fist so even if it lands it's not an auto win. But a single shield bash to Rand's hit would knock him out.

Originally posted by cdtm
Without an Iron Fist, these things are true:

1. Guards can be broken.

2. Grapples are VERY hard to avoid (Even in boxing, how often to clinch's happen?)

So there's no way Cap is guarding against an Iron Fist with anything but his shield. And avoiding it should be pretty difficult, because Cap isn't a hummingbird and Danny isn't an elephant.. They're pretty comparable in speed. All Danny really needs to do is rush him (Not like an idiot, but intelligently), grab him, and pound him

Cap's main advantage is the shield, for attack and defense. While Danny basically has Mjolnir attached to his hand, and can attack/defend with it just as easily as normal attacks, because it's still his hand..

Grappling Cap is a horrible horrible idea (like worst idea ever). What's to stop Cap simply grabbing the glowy hand by the wrist and shield bashing Danny? He is literally at least 10x stronger and (by on screen showings) faster, heavier by weight/mass and actually has grappling showings where he pins his opponent's arm. Any grappling attempt by Danny would end very very very badly for him. It would be like: Danny lunges, Cap shield bashes him or shoves his face into the ground for the KO. Absolute massacre. It would be like a 10 year old trying to grapple the Mountain. Squish.

And I don't know how you even think that Cap would have a hard time blocking one extremely obvious "please block me" glowy hand when he has blocked actual gunfire at point blank range aimed at different parts of his body to circumvent the shield.

And his arms/limbs aren't anywhere as good defensively as a shield (duh). If he blocks Cap's kicks, he's gonna get thrown or his arm badly hurt. If he blocks a large heavy metal shield being swung by a superstrong supersoldier, his arms will get broken. He can dodge, sure maybe parry (but that still will hurt badly). But shield > arm for attack and shield >>>>>> arm/limb for defense.

Breaking it down Cap has better stats, has a means to neutralize IF's trump card, has better offense and defense, better consistent technique (due to superior choreography), higher versatility (grappling showings, ranged attack) has one shot potential with a better means of delivery, has more oneshot threats (4 limbs + shield vs one IF that requires recharge if it hits the shield) AND can rebound his opponents trump card (via shield) back to his face on a succesful (highly likely) block.

So how is this a fight again?

10x stronger. 😆

What bullshit arguments. I bet you're the same people that argued comic Steve crush's Danny without the Iron Fist (Which he absolutely does not. The reverse, more likely.) You make Dragon Ball fans look reasonable, and that's saying something.

Originally posted by cdtm
10x stronger. 😆

What bullshit arguments. You make Dragon Ball fans look reasonable, and that's saying something.

Ok, best strength showing by Danny.

Go.

Let me start with an easy one: Motorcycle lift nonchalantly (CA:FA): estimated at 1100 lbs overhead. Done with zero strain.

https://youtu.be/7i574Em3IrI

(2:15)

Your turn.

Originally posted by cdtm
I bet you're the same people that argued comic Steve crush's Danny without the Iron Fist (Which he absolutely does not. The reverse, more likely.) You make Dragon Ball fans look reasonable, and that's saying something.

This isn't comics, this is Defenders TV series IF vs movie Cap. Thus we use "feats" and showings from said shows.

Originally posted by FrothByte
In the end I have to give Cap the win, maybe 7/10. Danny winning 3/10 by lucky shot of his IF. And that's only h2h. Give Cap the shield and I'll go 10/10 in favor of Cap.

👆

Originally posted by Nibedicus
This isn't comics, this is Defenders TV series IF vs movie Cap. Thus we use "feats" and showings from said shows.

Uh huh.

And what feat makes you think Cap is shrugging off a floor busting Iron Fist, or that he's anywhere near Luke Cage level durability, Matt level skill, or any of that other B.S. Rage.Of.Olympus claimed.

Who I believe argued against feats on many occasions in his comic debates, as MANY have.. Danny vs Cap no shield no IF is one example of such, where the board bandwagons on Steve to such a degree they even call him KOing Hulk as "not PIS."

The definition of fanboyism, if you Cap taking Hulk doesn't raise an eyebrow.