Originally posted by xJLxKing
Lets try again so i don't have to re-read 12 pagesPut aside hulk's fans outrageous claim about WBH. Who destroyed the solar system in issue 27?
The 2-3 issues 27-29 deals with Orion escaping the clutches of Nth Golem who is hellbent on killing him. Issue 27 opens up with a solar system being destroyed. We don't know the exact reasons.
A few panels later, Orion breathes a sigh of relief as he escaped. While talking with Hal and Kyle, he gets hit by omega beams fired by the Nth Golem. All it takes is one hit.
The next time the Nth Golem and Orion meet, it's made clear again, Orion, Hal, and Kyle are no match. Orion makes a statement that when the Omega beams go online, he will die regardless. As such, they fake his death.
In issue 28, the GL members claim another Nth Golem will end up killing even highfather if they don't intervene
In issue 29, it takes GL members and High father exploiting a weakness to defeat the Nth Golem. A weakness no one knew about prior to the last few minutes.Tell me, why would i assume that the destruction of the Solar System was caused by a prolonged or short fight between Nth Golem and Orion? The entire story is about how Orion is trying to escape, looking for help, and with more direct statements about how he's going to get killed by a golem that is chasing him.
Why would i assume a shockwave destroyed a solar system from unreliable Hal and kyle, whom only just arrived to witness a red energy destroying the system? The same type that the red golem was using in later events. Furthermore, the other colored nth golem were using similar looking attacks like in issue 29 (page~13)
Why would I? Because Hal and Kyle rhetorically asked if Orion and the golem destroyed a solar systemThere is nothing in that arc that actually suggests that Orion was responsible for that collateral damage. The only thing i'd claim is that he may have some nice durability, but even that's far fetched considering he got KO'ed in one hit
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Hal-Jordan-And-The-Green-Lantern-Corps/Issue-26?id=118782
And we actually saw Orion and the golem fight and the writer confirmed it on twitter after Kyle confirms it in the comic. What else is needed?
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Great. Any interview or just those supporting people's individual argument?
What about those that totally contradict on panel events
My personal stance is that if it's an interview with the writer and it supports what's on panel, then it's allowed as supplementary evidence. Just like a tweet or a reddit or forum post or whatever.
It can't contradict what's on the page, as the comic itself will always have priority.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Have you actually read the comic? It was in issue 26 where the solar system was destroyed, not issue 27.https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Hal-Jordan-And-The-Green-Lantern-Corps/Issue-26?id=118782
And we actually saw Orion and the golem fight and the writer confirmed it on twitter after Kyle confirms it in the comic. What else is needed?
Again, we didn't see ANYTHING. We saw a panel of the two, with what may or may not look like the Golem was using some sort of blast. Apart of that, we do not know anything. Nothing in the comic suggest or hints at what actually happens
Did Orion punch the golem? Did he fart? We can only speculate based on the next few key events.
1. Orion being defeated in one hit.
2. Orion stating he will get killed
3. Orion stating he was sent to find help
4. Highfather would even get killed by these golem
Based on key events and plotpoint, there is nothing to suggest that Orion is even comparable to the Golem. Nothing suggest they are equal in power.
Are you honestly going to type up that it's some sort of feat.
Picture this. Superman vs Captain America. The entire city is destroyed.
can you honestly start claiming CA is city level? We don't know anything?
Did superman thunderclap and CA hid in a corner? Did CA launch a nuke?
What you're doing is trying to use a interview/post from the writer, twisting it, to help your biased agenda. The writers interview doesn't mean much when the panels and his own plotline contradict him.
Originally posted by -Pr-
My personal stance is that if it's an interview with the writer and it supports what's on panel, then it's allowed as supplementary evidence. Just like a tweet or a reddit or forum post or whatever.It can't contradict what's on the page, as the comic itself will always have priority.
In Abhi's case, he is stretching a statement to help his agenda. On panel is not detailed enough for us to know for a fact what occurred.
The writers statement is too vague when applying it to the issue.
If i make a statement that I fought Mohammed Ali and my room was destroyed. Too many scenarios to suggest that I'm his equal. He likely used my body as a ragdoll
Originally posted by xJLxKing
In Abhi's case, he is stretching a statement to help his agenda. On panel is not detailed enough for us to know for a fact what occurred.The writers statement is too vague when applying it to the issue.
If i make a statement that I fought Mohammed Ali and my room was destroyed. Too many scenarios to suggest that I'm his equal. He likely used my body as a ragdoll
There are a couple of things wrong with your scenario. Ill explain later in my post.
The golem had Omega Beams attack that were precision based, deadly but no collateral damage and had energy based attacks that can harm green lanterns.
It needed time to charge his omega beams and while charging used energy based attacks. He wasn't using the Omega Beams attack when the shockwaves destroyed the System because then Orion would be dead and no collateral damage.
So now back to your scenario.
Ali in his prime would ko us in a second without much collateral damage. Like the Omega beams from Golem to Orion.
Now match prime Ali with Tyson in his prime, not going to get into who wins, but your room loses. More evenly matched opponents, no oneshot KO = destroyed room. The same thing with golem vs Orion, no omega beams, more of those attacks like the one he harmed Hal vs Orion going for the kill with no regard to collateral damage equaled solar system being destroyed.
This is why Kyle didnt want Orion to go against him, Orion wouldn't show the same restraint that the lanterns would if it came down to a none omega beams battle.
People have said that Orion boomed tubed out during the battle but that's false because every time the boom tube is used, there is a BOOM. there was no boom in that shockwaves battle scene.
Also the color of the attacks from the Golem was different than the shockwaves that destroyed the system so it wasn't all golem. Don't know if he was 99%, or 50% but if not specified in the comic, we usually accept 50% except the side that brings up planetoids, hollow planets and weightlessness in space.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Lets try again so i don't have to re-read 12 pagesPut aside hulk's fans outrageous claim about WBH. Who destroyed the solar system in issue 27?
The 2-3 issues 27-29 deals with Orion escaping the clutches of Nth Golem who is hellbent on killing him. Issue 27 opens up with a solar system being destroyed. We don't know the exact reasons.
A few panels later, Orion breathes a sigh of relief as he escaped. While talking with Hal and Kyle, he gets hit by omega beams fired by the Nth Golem. All it takes is one hit.
The next time the Nth Golem and Orion meet, it's made clear again, Orion, Hal, and Kyle are no match. Orion makes a statement that when the Omega beams go online, he will die regardless. As such, they fake his death.
In issue 28, the GL members claim another Nth Golem will end up killing even highfather if they don't intervene
In issue 29, it takes GL members and High father exploiting a weakness to defeat the Nth Golem. A weakness no one knew about prior to the last few minutes.Tell me, why would i assume that the destruction of the Solar System was caused by a prolonged or short fight between Nth Golem and Orion? The entire story is about how Orion is trying to escape, looking for help, and with more direct statements about how he's going to get killed by a golem that is chasing him.
Why would i assume a shockwave destroyed a solar system from unreliable Hal and kyle, whom only just arrived to witness a red energy destroying the system? The same type that the red golem was using in later events. Furthermore, the other colored nth golem were using similar looking attacks like in issue 29 (page~13)
Why would I? Because Hal and Kyle rhetorically asked if Orion and the golem destroyed a solar systemThere is nothing in that arc that actually suggests that Orion was responsible for that collateral damage. The only thing i'd claim is that he may have some nice durability, but even that's far fetched considering he got KO'ed in one hit
I understood the very same thing when I read it. However, when I cited these facts, I was told that I was being dishonest. Guess what's likely going to happen to you?
Originally posted by Diesldude
There are a couple of things wrong with your scenario. Ill explain later in my post.The golem had Omega Beams attack that were precision based, deadly but no collateral damage and had energy based attacks that can harm green lanterns.
It needed time to charge his omega beams and while charging used energy based attacks. He wasn't using the Omega Beams attack when the shockwaves destroyed the System because then Orion would be dead and no collateral damage.
So now back to your scenario.
Ali in his prime would ko us in a second without much collateral damage. Like the Omega beams from Golem to Orion.Now match prime Ali with Tyson in his prime, not going to get into who wins, but your room loses. More evenly matched opponents, no oneshot KO = destroyed room. The same thing with golem vs Orion, no omega beams, more of those attacks like the one he harmed Hal vs Orion going for the kill with no regard to collateral damage equaled solar system being destroyed.
This is why Kyle didnt want Orion to go against him, Orion wouldn't show the same restraint that the lanterns would if it came down to a none omega beams battle.
People have said that Orion boomed tubed out during the battle but that's false because every time the boom tube is used, there is a BOOM. there was no boom in that shockwaves battle scene.
Also the color of the attacks from the Golem was different than the shockwaves that destroyed the system so it wasn't all golem. Don't know if he was 99%, or 50% but if not specified in the comic, we usually accept 50% except the side that brings up planetoids, hollow planets and weightlessness in space.
Diesl, your analogy deviates from what is actually written and can be cited from the actual story. Accept what was written. Orion was no threat to the Nth Metal Golem, and if we were to measure him to the construct it would be like comparing a mouse to a lion. There was clearly a large gap in their power levels. Knowing this fact pretty much cements the idea that Orion was in flight mode, because only a character with a death wish, or one with extremely low intelligence (Dumb Drax level) would attempt to battle a creature well above their weight class. Orion isn't shown to be either, which is why he opts to use the better part of valor. Retreat.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
yeah, i made a mistake. It was not issue 27, issue 26.Again, we didn't see ANYTHING. We saw a panel of the two, with what may or may not look like the Golem was using some sort of blast. Apart of that, we do not know anything. Nothing in the comic suggest or hints at what actually happens
Did Orion punch the golem? Did he fart? We can only speculate based on the next few key events.
1. Orion being defeated in one hit.
2. Orion stating he will get killed
3. Orion stating he was sent to find help
4. Highfather would even get killed by these golemBased on key events and plotpoint, there is nothing to suggest that Orion is even comparable to the Golem. Nothing suggest they are equal in power.
Are you honestly going to type up that it's some sort of feat.
Picture this. Superman vs Captain America. The entire city is destroyed.
can you honestly start claiming CA is city level? We don't know anything?
Did superman thunderclap and CA hid in a corner? Did CA launch a nuke?What you're doing is trying to use a interview/post from the writer, twisting it, to help your biased agenda. The writers interview doesn't mean much when the panels and his own plotline contradict him.
Why do we need a play by play account of the scene? Are you dumb?
Originally posted by xJLxKing
In Abhi's case, he is stretching a statement to help his agenda. On panel is not detailed enough for us to know for a fact what occurred.The writers statement is too vague when applying it to the issue.
If i make a statement that I fought Mohammed Ali and my room was destroyed. Too many scenarios to suggest that I'm his equal. He likely used my body as a ragdoll
Shut the **** up.
Originally posted by Stoic
I understood the very same thing when I read it. However, when I cited these facts, I was told that I was being dishonest. Guess what's likely going to happen to you?
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
No, That isnt what you claimed when you arguing with me.
Like I said before. Im fine with you thinking the golem is the reason that caused the desctruction of the star system. But what you trying to argue is Orion not even trying to fight/engage/attack/battle the golem just flee, Which literally isnt true
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Orion scenario is nice but also at the same time, not really that impressivehe fought a golem and solar system was destroyed. it's impressive and tells you what type of opponent he fought. That said, we will never truly know how much of the damage was done by the Golem.
Was the golem shooting beams, while Orion was dodge the them?
Were they hitting each other to the point that their shockwaves destroyed the solar systemI can't remember but the 2-3 issues didn't really go that far into details.
Originally posted by Stoic
Diesl, your analogy deviates from what is actually written and can be cited from the actual story. Accept what was written.
Hey man I am going by what is explicitly written in the comic.
Originally posted by Stoic
Orion was no threat to the Nth Metal Golem, and if we were to measure him to the construct it would be like comparing a mouse to a lion. There was clearly a large gap in their power levels.
This is incorrect. The Golem had the edge over Orion because of the Omega Beams. We don't know how powerful the golem is but he did have that one shot kill which needed a recharge after each use.
While the Omega Beam is a precision based attack and is deadly to anyone that gets hit, it wasn't shot that fried the system. it takes the victim out, person victim is speaking with won't even feel a thing.
Originally posted by Stoic
Knowing this fact pretty much cements the idea that Orion was in flight mode, because only a character with a death wish, or one with extremely low intelligence (Dumb Drax level) would attempt to battle a creature well above their weight class. Orion isn't shown to be either, which is why he opts to use the better part of valor. Retreat.
Again we don't know how powerful the golem is without the omega beams. Hal and Kyle did ok while engaging him. Sure the golem could be more powerful than Orion, but its not a lion to a mouse type comparison. Even if it was, Orion is a hero, they dont give up especially a son of Darkseid. His honor is more important than his life. He would rather die than fly. Was even willing to sacrifice his life to save others. Orion doesn't run.
We have a clear picture of orion and the golem in a fight before the system blows up. No omega beams were used because of the collateral damage. We saw the golem's Non Omega Beams, energy based attack against hal and it didn't have solar system busting power.
Ill try another way. Im going to mention collateral damage because that's what this thread is about.
1) Golem + Omega Beams - Orion almost dies no collateral damage.
2) Golem None Omega Beams shoots Hal, Breaks Hal's shields makes Hal shriek but the solar system still intact; however The Golem may not be in for the kill against hal.
3)Golem going for the kill (no O.Bs) vs Orion fighting to survive, Solar system gets destroyed.
Without the OBs I didn't see the golem have a big enough power advantage over HAL, Kyle or Orion. But according to Kyle a fight to the death between orion and the golem(non OBs) could result in another solar system being destroyed.
Lmao, is this still going on? I swear to god, I'm reading the posts here and if you blank out the usernames from the marvel side, you don't realize which username is actually making the posts, lol.
Again, to summarize:
Originally posted by Galan007
Don't know how in the hell there could be differing opinions, tbh. Planet-level vs. star system-level is a complete no brainer. As Phil said: we are talking about SEVERAL orders of magnitude here... 😕
Orion fights the Golem and the solar system is destroyed as a side-effect. Hulk and Red She Hulk Clash and the planet is destroyed as a side effect. Both of these on panel. It pales in comparison to Orion's, as does Thor/Surfer's. All of them combined do not approach it.
Do people don't know how to read comics? Do we need to rearrange the panels in paint for people to understand? lol
The writer comes out and says that this is what happened, yet completely biased posters still come out "we just can't use it 🙁". 😂
How desperate are some people? lol
Originally posted by abhilegend
So we see Golem and Orion colliding, the writer said the collision destroyed the solar system and we see energy waves going across the solar system.Why do we need a play by play account of the scene? Are you dumb?
😂 That's headcanon. There is no where on panel that showed they collided.
Originally posted by abhilegend
So we see Golem and Orion colliding, the writer said the collision destroyed the solar system and we see energy waves going across the solar system.Why do we need a play by play account of the scene? Are you dumb?
Originally posted by xJLxKingTBF, Abhi did have a good stance initially but he goes too hard sometimes 🙁
I need a play by play account but the entire story contracts what you are saying...
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
ehhh, No. Your argument is Orion not even trying to battle/attack/engage/fight the golem when facing it.Even xJLxKing agreed they fought(albeit we dont know the details of this fight, So its very hard to quantify it)
I dont know whether it is miscommunication. Were you trying to say unless it is inevitable/necessary Orion wouldnt try to engage golems then I agree you 100%. But what I got from your posts was youre trying to say Orion didnt even try attacking/fighting/engaging/battling golems even when the situation was already inevitable/necessary.
My point is, if they fought and destroyed a solar system, great. We just don’t know the deals.
Abhi is trying to reach that somehow this automatically should be a 50/50 feat. We don’t know.
He is biased and applying a view that contracts the story.
Highfather is even running away and scared. Orion get one shot twice. Yet I’m supposed to ignore all on panel evidence for his outlandish claim