LT being described as "a representative" of TOAA doesn't put his personal power on par with TOAA in any way/shape/form, lol. I can say this with absolute certainty, because LT was killed with a fair amount of ease by Thanos /w/ THOTI:
https://i.imgur.com/i5huwtV.jpg
And per Starlin himself: THOTI only equates to "A FRAGMENTARY GLIMPSE" of TOAA's powers, perceptions, and motivations:
https://i.imgur.com/djVCVXD.jpg
In simpler terms: an insignificant micro-fraction of TOAA's power >>> his 'representative', LT.
Michael, on the other hand, doesn't just act as a 'representative' of God, but *actually* contains the sum-total of God's Demiurgic power WITHIN him:
https://i.imgur.com/u5oXqmZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8ZfNMt2.jpg
*Exact same concept applies to Lucifer and God's will, btw.
...But of course I don't expect silly things like facts to go very far at all here. Pretty sure most of you are only posting just to troll abhi anyway. srug
Originally posted by Galan007
LT being described as "a representative" of TOAA doesn't put his personal power on par with TOAA in any way/shape/form, lol. I can say this with absolute certainty, because LT was killed with a fair amount of ease by Thanos /w/ THOTI:
https://i.imgur.com/i5huwtV.jpgAnd per Starlin himself: THOTI only equates to "A FRAGMENTARY GLIMPSE" of TOAA's powers, perceptions, and motivations:
https://i.imgur.com/djVCVXD.jpgIn simpler terms: an insignificant micro-fraction of TOAA's power >>> his 'representative', LT.
Michael, on the other hand, doesn't just act as a 'representative' of God, but *actually* contains the sum-total of God's Demiurgic power WITHIN him:
https://i.imgur.com/u5oXqmZ.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/8ZfNMt2.jpg
*Exact same concept applies to Lucifer and God's will, btw.
...But of course I don't expect silly things like facts to go very far at all here. Pretty sure most of you are only posting just to troll abhi anyway. srug
Okay first of all NO ONE is trolling Abhi here. The guys just have some concepts wrong.
I NEVER said LT was in par with TOAA!
And you got it wrong. Michael doesnt have the same power than that of the Presence!
The thing is this. LT is second to TOAA but Michael AND Lucifer are second to Presence!
For instance, Michael isnt omnipotent. His power is that of creation but he cant midify or change these. Lucifer on the other hand CAN modify or mold creation but it CANT create things.
The Presence can do both! So Michael 《《 Presence.
So, basically Michael would need to team with Lucifer in order to = the Living Tribunal.
The Living Tribunal isnt limited but by the own purpose which TOAA gave him.
For instance, the tribunal CANT destroy Earth based on will, or defeat someone based on will, cause it seems he doesnt have free will outside his own purpose which is to be an arbitrary for the Multiverse.
Once LT has a case to work on is Omnipotent at a Multiversal scale as i said before.
Originally posted by Galan007
LT being described as "a representative" of TOAA doesn't put his personal power on par with TOAA in any way/shape/form, lol. I can say this with absolute certainty, because LT was killed with a fair amount of ease by Thanos /w/ THOTI:
https://i.imgur.com/i5huwtV.jpgAnd per Starlin himself: THOTI only equates to "A FRAGMENTARY GLIMPSE" of TOAA's powers, perceptions, and motivations:
https://i.imgur.com/djVCVXD.jpgIn simpler terms: an insignificant micro-fraction of TOAA's power >>> his 'representative', LT.
Michael, on the other hand, doesn't just act as a 'representative' of God, but *actually* contains the sum-total of God's Demiurgic power WITHIN him:
https://i.imgur.com/u5oXqmZ.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/8ZfNMt2.jpg
*Exact same concept applies to Lucifer and God's will, btw.
...But of course I don't expect silly things like facts to go very far at all here. Pretty sure most of you are only posting just to troll abhi anyway. srug
Thanos with HOTU kills a universal aspect o LT, not the multiversal LT.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
You don't know the difference between Disassembled and HoM?
Show us where she got amped in between.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Ultimates 100 doesn't say that LT is a function of Eternity. You're adding things not stated. LT serves a multiversal function. That was true before and after the 8th iteration. The very story you cite declares LT to be the most powerful being in creation and nothing in the story states nor implies that this changes.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
=.=[/URL][/IMG]
Just like Michael and Lucifer represent the Presence, so does the Tribunal represents TOAA in Marvel.
Okay i don't know why you underestimate LT so much, but am gonna assume you have misinterpret him and provably misunderstood his powers and abilities.
The Tribunal has NEVER lost a case. Not over all.
If it is true that beings like Korvac or the Beyonder have challanged the authority of the LT that has been at a Universal scale.
Am gonna take time and EXPLAIN to you how the Tribunal works since it seems you have it wrong.
1): His role: He is the keeper of cosmic balance. As you may already know. As ive shown you already he stands second to TOAA and is his direct Representative in the Multiverse. Any being which breaks this balance (TOAAs) Balance, then the TRIBUNAL has omnipotent power to STOP/REFRAIN that being from breaking it and therefore bringing balance back.
[B]2): How does he do this?: Now this is what YOU got completly wrong.
The Tribunal isn't a BOXER or a KILLING MACHINE. To keep cosmic balance doesn't necessary means that the LT has to kill the being causing it, or that he has to Destroy/erase him. The Living Tribunal has several ways of maintaining or restoring Cosmic Balance.1: Creation of Pocket dimensions or Sealed universes: This is one of the ways the Tribunal ensures that being of "OMNIPOTENT" power don't disrupt the balance of the Multiverse. The tribunal can seal universes to prevent the "infection" to spread to other universes. Such as he did with Korvac or the Beyonder. Also some speculate that Dormammu can't come out of his reality because he was sealed by LT at a point in time.
2: Absorption of beings: Just as he did with Protege, The LT can absorb beings of "Omnipotent" power to prevent them from disrupting the balance.
3: Neutralization of powers: As seen when he cast judgement on Adam Warlock, the Living Tribunal can neutralize the powers of other universal/multiversal beings. Like when he neutralized the powers of the Infinity Gaunlet, the LT can do this, and therefore force beings to return to their normal duties.
4: Obliteration or Destruction of realites: This is something seldom done by the Tribunal. In some weird instances the Tribunal has claimed he has to Destroy the Reality to maintain cosmic balance. But i believe this is a very WEIRD and EXCEPTIONAL instance. Maybe he only does this when he feels really threatened. Like when Dr. Strange upset the Cosmic balance, the LT said that he had broken A LOT of rules, and that he needed to now Destroy earth and it's reality. But again this is SELDOM done but isn't something the LT can't do
3): LT powers and abilities:
Limitted Omnipotence: The LT is omnipotent, but he is limited by his own reason of existance. The Tribunal can't act outside his purpose. That's why he is neigh Omnipotent. HOWEVER once he is acting on his PURPOSE or JOB the Tribuna becomes OMNIPOTENT. I don't recall a single case in where the Tribunal lost to a case.
OMNIPRESENCE: this is another thing you have COMPLETELY wrong. The Tribunal is everywhere at the same time. He is in every reality and universe at the same time. Just because for instance Thanos defeated him with the HOTU that doesn't mean that the Tribunal is dead. That means that that Tribunal from that Universe died, but the Tribunal is still in existance in other realites and in the Multiverse as a whole.
So just because some beings have "DEFEATED" the LT doesn't mean that they have "WON". For those beings might have "DEFEATED" the LT in their UNIVERSE but the LT is still above them at a "MULTIVERSAL SCALE".
That's what i've been trying to tell you this whole time. The Tribunal can still come and Seal that particular universe and bring cosmic balance again.
So yeah.
THE LT IS SECOND TO TOAA!
I hope you appreciate the time i took to EXPLAIN to you how the Tribunal works and hope you can better understand his character. 😉 😄 [/B]
Zauriel was representative of heaven as well, doesn't mean he was second in power to Presence.
The rest of your drivel is amusing to say the least. LT has somehow never lost when he has been defeated by an alternate Reed Richards.
Carry on.
Originally posted by abhilegend
It was same Scarlet Witch and written by the same writer.Show us where she got amped in between.
Yes, it did. It was already shown and proved.
Representative does not means second in command.Zauriel was representative of heaven as well, doesn't mean he was second in power to Presence.
The rest of your drivel is amusing to say the least. LT has somehow never lost when he has been defeated by an alternate Reed Richards.
Carry on.
What alternate Reed Richards?
Originally posted by abhilegenddurlaugh That misinterpretation of yours happened BEFORE Wanda‘s full potential was reached in the actual HOM arc.... Dr Strange,via Eye of Aggy, showed Wanda what she had done (killing her Avenger friends) this realization depressed her into a comatose state. That‘s it. During HOM, Strange was not only remade by Wanda, but he was her b^tch like everyone else.
Yes, she was. Read Avengers 503.
Originally posted by TheHulksterA nonexistent one since that claim is completely false. Per usual he‘s taking an incident and twisting it into a fallacy to lowball. Youl soon notice this an unstoppable habit you‘re up against. He wont bring up how his one and only Spectre got owned by a single planet bopped on his head, and he was even sent by his "boss" lol. Now that's pathetic.
What alternate Reed Richards?
Originally posted by Mr Master
durlaugh That misinterpretation of yours happened BEFORE Wanda‘s full potential was reached in the actual HOM arc.... Dr Strange,via Eye of Aggy, showed Wanda what she had done (killing her Avenger friends) this realization depressed her into a comatose state. That‘s it. During HOM, Strange was not only remade by Wanda, but he was her b^tch like everyone else.
Originally posted by Mr Master
A nonexistent one since that claim is completely false. Per usual he‘s taking an incident and twisting it into a fallacy to lowball. Youl soon notice this an unstoppable habit you‘re up against. He wont bring up how his one and only Spectre got owned by a single planet bopped on his head, and he was even sent by his "boss" lol. Now that's pathetic.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes. At least he has his high showings. LT has poor showings only save a few implied showings of power. Otherwise he loses to an alternate Reed Richards and his blast combined with several other cosmics is only solar system level.
Your parroting same thing again and again doesn't proves anything. LT doesn't has any feats on level of Lucifer or Michael and he has already been shown as a peer to Spectre.
Originally posted by abhilegend
It was same Scarlet Witch and written by the same writer.Show us where she got amped in between.
Yes, it did. It was already shown and proved.
Representative does not means second in command.Zauriel was representative of heaven as well, doesn't mean he was second in power to Presence.
The rest of your drivel is amusing to say the least. LT has somehow never lost when he has been defeated by an alternate Reed Richards.
Carry on.
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it doesn't. Starlin used LT as a different character in each universe.
MC2.
Again youve several wrong concepts which i hope i can explain to you!
1st. You NEED to understand the concept of CONTINUITY! It seems like youve tangled ALL comics and think that THE MATERIAL and INFO in these are VALID in THESE THREADS.
Thats an error. When you bring evidence to general threads you have to bring CONTINUITY MATERIAL. The LT that got killed by that Reed ans you yourself claimed is an ALTERNATE one, not a CONTINUITY one! In fact i was Unaware of that comic (where reed killed LT), I personally try to avoid non-canon comics cause they are really IRRELEVANT to discussions.
I would advice you to ignore non-canon comics cause they really are based off continuity and the authors tend to do whatever they wish! And sometimes they even seem to ignore character feats and do stupid endings. Reed shouldve NEVER been able to kill LT!! But again it is understandable since its a non canon comic...it isnt in contiinuity with 616 universe!
2: LT Omnipresence: Ive seen your replies and i notice you havenissues with this.
The LT is omnipresence, and this is one of the things that makes him most difficult to understand. These means he is everywhere at the same time. Now you miht get confused and think that these means that Continuity and non-canon comics are the SAME tribunal, but it isnt.
For instance, Starlin's Infinity finale LT isnt the same as the Continuity LT.
So although LT is omnipresemt that doesnt mean that LT is the same over all the comics.
3. LT is SECOND to TOAA in the Cosmic Hierchy of Marvel:
Idk how DC Universe Hierchy is, but in Marvel you SHOULD know LT is on top of the Cosmic Hierchy just bellow TOAA, again at a Multiversal scale.
Again there have been beings that have defeated the LT from thier universes BUT they are still below LT because their power doesnt surpass other Universes.
LT on the other hand, can affect Multiple realities and universes.
E.G. Korvac defeated his universes LT, but he got sealed in his own universe by the LT! The LT is stillmABOVE korvac at a multiversal scale, since LT can still work outside universes, where Korvac is limitted to his UNIVERSE.
The only time a Being was able to OVERWHELM the LT authority was in Time Runs Out, when the Ivory Kings killed the ALL Realities LT.
Conclusion: This thread isnt concerned with non-continuity material. Any events that happen in alternate universes dont concern this thread, for when you say LT vs EJ you are refering to the CONTINUITY LT and not Alternate ones. Should the OP have stated Alternate LT of random comic, then the material of such Alternate comic is valid.
I hope this is of help for you. Understanding LT is a hard thing. LT is one of my favorite Characters because he is such a complex being. Dont worry its easy to make mistakes when understanding LT, even I used to make them.
😉
