The Mountain, The Hound and Jaime vs. Wolverine

If Wolverine does the "dramatic jump over the camera while POV rotates to some goon getting chest impaled" move patented by Bryan Singer, I can see Logan losing.

However, this a 100-year old war veteran that has fought samurai power armor, a mutant with superhuman agility feats, a mutant with with nigh-superhuman agility feats that had the same adamantium skeleton as him at the time, his mutant step-brother that can swing the trunk of a tree like a baseball bat, and a mutant that can crush APC's and bust through walls by running into them.

Also, gotten crushed by logs and look like he just had a bad night's sleep when the logs on top of him are cleared, gotten shot hundreds of times escaping the Weapon X facility, gotten shot by like 50 arrows in the back and kept walking, survived an atom bomb, jumped off a nuclear power plant tower, thrown armored goons backwards over his shoulders like he was doing a double cable deltoid backhand, and survived having rebar twisting through him by Magneto then thrown into the Potomac River.

My argument is that if he can tank/survive this stuff and fight all these different opponents and still somehow come away with an action hero win, he can take down the Thrones crew.

EDIT: Inb4, "but the OP says no adamantium!" I know this, and yes obviously the adamantium made some of the above feats survivable for Logan. I still listed plenty of feats of Wolverine with just bone, and the adamantium wouldn't have stopped his organs from turning to mush and his tendons, ligaments, and fascia from snapping when doing something like jumping off the coolant tower on the nuclear power plant.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Wolverine isn't stupid enough to allow them to surround him before he engages one.

Likely (like anyone trained in self defense, or anyone experienced with any actual fighting, he will know or have been taught when dealing with multiple opponent and the option of "run away" or "defuse the situation" does not exist) he would position himself in a manner that would put one opponent between himself and his other opponents (effectively limiting their points of engagement), likely the Mountain as he is a slow and lumbering beast, as he does have a solid (if not huge) mobility advantage here.

I haven't replied to your first posts because I haven't watched the videos. Thought it would be dick move to continue to argue without at least reviewing your posted proof.

But I just want to say that in the same way you think Wolverine isn't going to fight stupid, the GOT knights aren't fighting stupid either. They will surround him, keep their distance, utilize their longer reach.

I also think you're highly exaggerating the lethal capabilities of Wolverine's bone claws. These claws cannot cut. Not that I recall anyway. They can stab and they can slash but I don't recall him ever slashing too deeply with them. Going for an opponent's legs will leave him completely exposed from a hit from above. That would be a suicide move for him. Heck, the knights can simply extend their swords infront of them and watch Wolverine impale himself on the blade. That takes no special speed at all.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I haven't replied to your first posts because I haven't watched the videos. Thought it would be dick move to continue to argue without at least reviewing your posted proof.

1) But I just want to say that in the same way you think Wolverine isn't going to fight stupid, the GOT knights aren't fighting stupid either. They will surround him, keep their distance, utilize their longer reach.

2) I also think you're highly exaggerating the lethal capabilities of Wolverine's bone claws. These claws cannot cut. Not that I recall anyway. They can stab and they can slash but I don't recall him ever slashing too deeply with them.

3) Going for an opponent's legs will leave him completely exposed from a hit from above. That would be a suicide move for him.

1) The video I posted how quickly a fast and skilled dual knife user can close even against a competent (however less skilled) longsword user trying to make use of their reach advantage.

If they keep the sword extended (like in the video) to put the sword between them and Logan, he can use his claws to push away the tip of the blade (like in the video) and close in quickly and he'd likely suffer inconsequential damage (likely a deep cut AT BEST).

If they cock their arms and do a power cut, he'd duck under and stab their leg (like the Wolverine video I posted). As the Hound and the Mountain's power slashes tend to look very telegraphed.

I'm sure you will agree that in order to maintain one's reach advantage against an opponent, one needs to be able to match the speed of their foot work, else they get chased down. Footwork Wolverine will have a huge advantage in against the Mountain or the Hound (who he'll likely take out first as they are big fat juicy targets).

2) He doesn't need to slash when stabbing works best, actually and he's been able to stab clean thru Sabertooth's shoulder (bone and all, right thru what looks like the clavicle/scapula) straight thru up to his fist.

https://youtu.be/0N7ZDpIbx10

2:13-2:15

3) Except for the times he did stab ppl in the legs and NOT get countered (he rolls away right after he stabs someone or flings them in the air). He also tends to throw down or trip his opponents once he stabs them in the leg (source: videos I posted already). So I don't get how anyone he stabs can counter.

And the time the Mountain got a bit slashed in the leg (by Oberyn), he cringed and whined in agony so I don't see how he can possibly counter after getting 3 deep stabs.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
1) Not when the Mountain broke it and knocked it from his hands:

https://youtu.be/QS2IYyywZMs

(3:13-3:24) Couldn't even hit Oberyn when Oberyn was unarmed on his ass on the ground. With a huge ass sword. That was a pretty bad showing really.

(3:45) And he tried to charge Oberyn, which was slow AF and easily sidestepped.

2) Which needs to be a direct power blow w/c is slow AF and easily avoided by someone of Wovlerine's dodging "feats". Come on, man. You're just repeating yourself now.

3) Except for all the times where he did duck and dodge and rolled and avoided attacks (that I posted videos of), amirite?

He blocked them because he can. If he can't, then he will dodge. Like he did several attacks in the video I posted (timestamped for your convenience). He's not a moron and I've already shown video evidence of him being able to adapt his tactics. Again in the videos I posted.

I already said this. Come on, if you're gonna ignore the evidence I post, we don't really have much to talk about. I put some work into that stuff.

4) Their power attacks are too slow to tag him. (Source: Video I posted when the Mountain and Hound fought).

I'm sure the faster stabs and slashes could glancingly tag him eventually but those don't do enough damage for Wolverine to be even be all that bothered by them.

5) You are VERY wrong here. Time is NOT on their side.

Any minor damage they take will make bleed out slowly and exhaust their stamina.

You use up 2x the amount of energy to move in armor than you do when not armored (and they'll be chasing around a much more nimble guy):

"Nevertheless, the team found that the volunteers expended nearly twice as much energy walking and running while wearing the armor as when they weren't."

(Source: http://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/a6749/medieval-knights-on-a-treadmill-put-historical-myths-to-the-test/)

Wolverine's healing factor (when it was not weakened like it was in Logan) has never been shown to tax his stamina.

It's not a matter of time at all. Time is on Wolvie's side, the longer he draws it out (using his superior mobility to dictate the pace of the fight).

6) Of course Jamie is not a ninja. He's not as fast or as agile. How does him not being a ninja mean he can deal out damaging blows? Kind of a non-sequitur here, buddy.

Again its three of them! Mountain aint alone! Wolverine WILL GET HIT!
that is not a question nor a maybe. HE WILL GET HIT. Once he gets a broken Arm or Leg he will get another and anothet. Wolverine will get carnaged!

Am repeating myself cause you keep repeating your folly!

Jaime is a better swordsman than any of those ninjas! Ninjas might be faster but he has better sword techniques.

No. Wolverine cant dodge Three good opponents flanking him! Bone wolverine gets massacred!

Originally posted by John Murdoch
If Wolverine does the "dramatic jump over the camera while POV rotates to some goon getting chest impaled" move patented by Bryan Singer, I can see Logan losing.

However, this a 100-year old war veteran that has fought samurai power armor, a mutant with superhuman agility feats, a mutant with with nigh-superhuman agility feats that had the same adamantium skeleton as him at the time, his mutant step-brother that can swing the trunk of a tree like a baseball bat, and a mutant that can crush APC's and bust through walls by running into them.

Also, gotten crushed by logs and look like he just had a bad night's sleep when the logs on top of him are cleared, gotten shot hundreds of times escaping the Weapon X facility, gotten shot by like 50 arrows in the back and kept walking, survived an atom bomb, jumped off a nuclear power plant tower, thrown armored goons backwards over his shoulders like he was doing a double cable deltoid backhand, and survived having rebar twisting through him by Magneto then thrown into the Potomac River.

My argument is that if he can tank/survive this stuff and fight all these different opponents and still somehow come away with an action hero win, he can take down the Thrones crew.

EDIT: Inb4, "but the OP says no adamantium!" I know this, and yes obviously the adamantium made some of the above feats survivable for Logan. I still listed plenty of feats of Wolverine with just bone, and the adamantium wouldn't have stopped his organs from turning to mush and his tendons, ligaments, and fascia from snapping when doing something like jumping off the coolant tower on the nuclear power plant.

Adamantium Wolverine》》》》》》》》》》》》》Bone Wolverine

He will get several Bone fractures or maybe even cut limbs to the swords! The moment Wolverine passes out team Wins by K.O!

He can also get decapitated!

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

1) Again its three of them! Mountain aint alone! Wolverine WILL GET HIT!
[B]that is not a question nor a maybe. HE WILL GET HIT. Once he gets a broken Arm or Leg he will get another and anothet. Wolverine will get carnaged!

2) Am repeating myself cause you keep repeating your folly!

3) Jaime is a better swordsman than any of those ninjas! Ninjas might be faster but he has better sword techniques.

4) No. Wolverine cant dodge Three good opponents flanking him! Bone wolverine gets massacred! [/B]

1) I share your opinion on Wolverine getting hit. I do not share in your opinion that the hits would be direct power blows that will shatter bone. Mountain and Hound are too slow. I don't recall Jamie being able to cut entire limbs with his sword strikes as he seemed more finesse-y as a fighter to me.

2) I post "feats" and proof. You post caps and opinions.

3) Better longsword user, sure. Better swordsman? Maybe. But this isn't a sword duel. His opponent uses a different set of weapons and moves in a different way than he is used to.

4) Unlike the times he was flanked by multiple faster swordsmen (where I posted videos of), amirite?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
[B]Adamantium Wolverine》》》》》》》》》》》》》Bone Wolverine

He will get several Bone fractures or maybe even cut limbs to the swords! The moment Wolverine passes out team Wins by K.O!

He can also get decapitated! [/B]

Bro, I even put the edit portion at the bottom of my post b/c I knew that was coming. Bone claw got crushed by logs from a log truck and was no worse for the wear besides looking groggy when Victor cleaned up the mess to get to him. And, again, having indestructible bones won't protect someone from having their chest organs rupture when they get smacked by a tree or jump hundreds of feet in the air onto the ground.

I've seen all the X-Men films. Seen all of Thrones except maybe a season 2 episode. I understand they have three advantages (armor, reach, numbers). Wolverine is just in a higher-tier, my man.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Bro, I even put the edit portion at the bottom of my post b/c I knew that was coming. Bone claw got crushed by logs from a log truck and was no worse for the wear besides looking groggy when Victor cleaned up the mess to get to him. And, again, having indestructible bones won't protect someone from having their chest organs rupture when they get smacked by a tree or jump hundreds of feet in the air onto the ground.

I've seen all the X-Men films. Seen all of Thrones except maybe a season 2 episode. I understand they have three advantages (armor, reach, numbers). Wolverine is just in a higher-tier, my man.

Lol so why are we disagreeing? I am supporting the same thing 😱 😂

Originally posted by Nibedicus
1) I share your opinion on Wolverine getting hit. I do not share in your opinion that the hits would be direct power blows that will shatter bone. Mountain and Hound are too slow. I don't recall Jamie being able to cut entire limbs with his sword strikes as he seemed more finesse-y as a fighter to me.

2) I post "feats" and proof. You post caps and opinions.

3) Better longsword user, sure. Better swordsman? Maybe. But this isn't a sword duel. His opponent uses a different set of weapons and moves in a different way than he is used to.

4) Unlike the times he was flanked by multiple faster swordsmen (where I posted videos of), amirite?

1. A sword hit from Jaime would definetly break bones! The reason because weve not seen himnto is because in all his fights his blows have been blocked by other swords. Once Wolverine getd a broken arm or leg his movility will decrease! It only takes ONE blow from Sandor or Gregor to lose a limb. The probabilities of Wolverine getting broken bones is high.

2. Am posting logic. And evidence as well, a good combination of those. Evidence means less if things dont match up.

3. Wolverine has no reliable Weapon! Bone Claws are fragile and non meaningful against armor...Wolverine has a disadvantage here. Put Bone Wolverine against those Ninjas and things would have been much different!....

4. He had to block some blows with his Bone claws.

Wolverine isnt on the winning side here, not even near limbo.

That is clear.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
1. A sword hit from Jaime would definetly break bones! The reason because weve not seen himnto is because in all his fights his blows have been blocked by other swords. Once Wolverine getd a broken arm or leg his movility will decrease! It only takes ONE blow from Sandor or Gregor to lose a limb. The probabilities of Wolverine getting broken bones is high.

2. Am posting logic. And evidence as well, a good combination of those. Evidence means less if things dont match up.

3. Wolverine has no reliable Weapon! Bone Claws are fragile and non meaningful against armor...Wolverine has a disadvantage here. Put Bone Wolverine against those Ninjas and things would have been much different!....

4. He had to block some blows with his Bone claws.

Wolverine isnt on the winning side here, not even near limbo.

That is clear.

1. You're just repeating yourself now. I posted multiple evidence of Wolverine avoiding fast sword attacks. You have posted your opinion. Pls be able to tell the difference. He is far faster than Jamie and have fought faster opponents without getting hit (see clips I posted). You have not posted any evidence of Jamie lopping off limbs or outfighting agile opponents. So my proof > yours.

2. Your logic is faulty w/c I've debunked via proof (via video clips) I've posted. You're just ignoring the proof cuz you can't disprove it.

You posting evidence would be if you were linking/posting timestamped video clips and source materials that would confirm your assertions, you have done none of those. So everything you've posted is simply your opinion and speculation. Again, pls be able to tell the difference.

3. He's been able to pierce his opponents with his bone claws (sabertooth, random mob goons) just fine. You are, again, speculating.

4. He blocks them because he can. He's no moron. If he can't block attacks from certain weapons, he'll simply dodge (w/c he's done to faster attacks, proven by the clips I've posted). <--- I've already typed this up more than once. And I'm not going to repeat it again. Pls read my previous replies. If you can't debunk it. Don't repeat the same tired assertion pls.

You keep repeating the "Wolverine has no chance" logic but can't seem to provide video evidence that would support your position. Funny that.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
1. You're just repeating yourself now. I posted multiple evidence of Wolverine avoiding fast sword attacks. You have posted your opinion. Pls be able to tell the difference. He is far faster than Jamie and have fought faster opponents without getting hit (see clips I posted). You have not posted any evidence of Jamie lopping off limbs or outfighting agile opponents. So my proof > yours.

2. Your logic is faulty w/c I've debunked via proof (via video clips) I've posted. You're just ignoring the proof cuz you can't disprove it.

You posting evidence would be if you were linking/posting timestamped video clips and source materials that would confirm your assertions, you have done none of those. So everything you've posted is simply your opinion and speculation. Again, pls be able to tell the difference.

3. He's been able to pierce his opponents with his bone claws (sabertooth, random mob goons) just fine. You are, again, speculating.

4. He blocks them because he can. He's no moron. If he can't block attacks from certain weapons, he'll simply dodge (w/c he's done to faster attacks, proven by the clips I've posted). <--- I've already typed this up more than once. And I'm not going to repeat it again. Pls read my previous replies. If you can't debunk it. Don't repeat the same tired assertion pls.

You keep repeating the "Wolverine has no chance" logic but can't seem to provide video evidence that would support your position. Funny that.

1. You want evidence! Let me grant you that!

https://youtu.be/qeqM1BVv3zA

Clearly blocks 50% of the blows! If he does the same in this fight he will lose BOTH CLAWS in a heart beat! He even got hit! In your own video the Ninja hit Wolverine's forehead! Without thw adamantium and his skull would have gotten open as an orange!

So here is my evidence, picture it as one of Jaime's blows against yours which is like Wolverine's Bone Claws.

2. I thought i didnt need to post videos. I thought you honest and faie enough to admit what i was saying, it seems however i got to do extra work and break your points by bringing evidence.

3. He has never been seen penetrating armor! Dont assume armor is cloth! Nor aluminum from a car's hood! You are the one speculating here!

4.You have no evidence for that! He is used to using his claws as shields! Logic says he isnt used to dodging. Once more you are speculating he will be able to dodge all blows like if he was flash. Again without logic your points are as fragile as Bone Wolverine!

Again i didnt brought evidence cause i thought i didnt need to. But since you want me to further push back your claims...

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
1. You want evidence! Let me grant you that!

https://youtu.be/qeqM1BVv3zA

Clearly blocks 50% of the blows! If he does the same in this fight he will lose BOTH CLAWS in a heart beat! He even got hit! In your own video the Ninja hit Wolverine's forehead! Without thw adamantium and his skull would have gotten open as an orange!

So here is my evidence, picture it as one of Jaime's blows against yours which is like Wolverine's Bone Claws.

2. I thought i didnt need to post videos. I thought you honest and faie enough to admit what i was saying, it seems however i got to do extra work and break your points by bringing evidence.

3. He has never been seen penetrating armor! Dont assume armor is cloth! Nor aluminum from a car's hood! You are the one speculating here!

4.You have no evidence for that! He is used to using his claws as shields! Logic says he isnt used to dodging. Once more you are speculating he will be able to dodge all blows like if he was flash. Again without logic your points are as fragile as Bone Wolverine!

Again i didnt brought evidence cause i thought i didnt need to. But since you want me to further push back your claims...

1. Sheesh. I already debunked this. See above. I'll not repeat the same argument I've already posted more than once.

2. Nope post videos so we can see what you mean. You don't believe what I say when I say it, what makes you think I am under an obligation to believe your opinions when you don't provide a basis for it?

3. Clearly you haven't been reading what I have been typing. Will not repeat already provided logic (supported by proof).

4. Yes I did. I've posted it over and over. If you're not going to read what I write, I think I'm just wasting my time here.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
1. Sheesh. I already debunked this. See above. I'll not repeat the same argument I've already posted more than once.

2. Nope post videos so we can see what you mean. You don't believe what I say when I say it, what makes you think I am under an obligation to believe your opinions when you don't provide a basis for it?

3. Clearly you haven't been reading what I have been typing. Will not repeat already provided logic (supported by proof).

4. Yes I did. I've posted it over and over. If you're not going to read what I write, I think I'm just wasting my time here.

1. Sheesh you keep bringing the same unreasonable/unresponisible/not-logic answer! Wolverine will get a blow! Period! No need to keep arguing the inevitable.

2. I have gave you videos! Wolverine is clearly not a dodger! He dodges from time to time Yes. But he relies to much on his claws. Else prove me otherwise!

3.Clearly you keep repeating the same unlogical arguments!

4. You've posted over and over. And over and over in your videos it is clear that Wolverine needs his claws to defend himself. He doesn't have them in this fight (Since they will break the moment he decides to use them) so your evidence goes against you.

The same thing i can say (am losing my time), since you keep arguing the same stupid point. Wolverine isn't a master at dodging things. Period.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
1. Sheesh you keep bringing the same [B]unreasonable/unresponisible/not-logic answer! Wolverine will get a blow! Period! No need to keep arguing the inevitable.

2. I have gave you videos! Wolverine is clearly not a dodger! He dodges from time to time Yes. But he relies to much on his claws. Else prove me otherwise!

3.Clearly you keep repeating the same unlogical arguments!

4. You've posted over and over. And over and over in your videos it is clear that Wolverine needs his claws to defend himself. He doesn't have them in this fight (Since they will break the moment he decides to use them) so your evidence goes against you.

The same thing i can say (am losing my time), since you keep arguing the same stupid point. Wolverine isn't a master at dodging things. Period. [/B]

1. Nope. Judging from your replies, you didn't read most of my replies at all. Since I've already debunked all this. Either keep up or stand down.

2. See above.

3. "unlogical". Greaaat.

4. Already covered this, too.

I guess I'll have wait for Froth for a decent debate. I'm not gonna waste my time repeating myself.

Logans like the "not dodging" master. Best thing hes got going for him is blocking things with his claws. Hes got some pretty damn good hand eye coordination tho. Its just that those bone claws are so fragile. Sabre tooth broke them with just the force of his foot. So we can assume the consistency of normal bone. Gregor at the very leas has shown he can cut through bone like butter. Even if he manages to pcik one of them and try to dodge him the other has him dead to rights without a way to block.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
1. Nope. Judging from your replies, you didn't read most of my replies at all. Since I've already debunked all this. Either keep up or stand down.

2. See above.

3. "unlogical". Greaaat.

4. Already covered this, too.

I guess I'll have wait for Froth for a decent debate. I'm not gonna waste my time repeating myself.

Good luck, nor will I.

Originally posted by omgchos
Logans like the "not dodging" master. Best thing hes got going for him is blocking things with his claws. Hes got some pretty damn good hand eye coordination tho. Its just that those bone claws are so fragile. Sabre tooth broke them with just the force of his foot. So we can assume the consistency of normal bone. Gregor at the very leas has shown he can cut through bone like butter. Even if he manages to pcik one of them and try to dodge him the other has him dead to rights without a way to block.

IK but the guy keeps saying he will....Its life, there is lots of unreasonable people out there. Specially those which support their idols instead of reason.

Originally posted by omgchos
Logans like the "not dodging" master. Best thing hes got going for him is blocking things with his claws. Hes got some pretty damn good hand eye coordination tho. Its just that those bone claws are so fragile. Sabre tooth broke them with just the force of his foot. So we can assume the consistency of normal bone. Gregor at the very leas has shown he can cut through bone like butter. Even if he manages to pcik one of them and try to dodge him the other has him dead to rights without a way to block.

See? This is a misconception. I posted a few replies that covers this around 2 pages ago.

Basically, Wolverine blocks because he can and it is the style best suited to his advantages (his top advantages being his damage soak and his unbreakable claws). When he dodges, he does so pretty well against multiple opponents who are all far faster than the lead footed Clegane brothers.

One doesn't need to block a full power cut from a longsword with bone claws, for Logan to do so, he'd have to be an complete idiot who is unfamiliar with the limitations his own powers that he's had for most of a century and be unable to change tactics (w/c I proved 2 pages ago was not true). He can always dodge those (as the Mountain and the Hound's power cuts are slow AF. Source: The fight between the 2) or he can just catch them on the downswing (source: ninja battle, early Yakuza battle) as he has what seems to be superstrength (source: ninja battle, X2, X3, X0). One can also just parry or shove the sword aside (source: the HEMA fight video I posted 2 pages ago in reply to Froth) if the opponent's stance points out the tip (to take advantage of the reach).

Bottom line is, Wolverine is not dumb and can change tactics fight if needed (see: argument from 2 pages ago) and can dodge very well (thus it is part of his combat toolkit) when needed (proof: ninja fight scene, Barakpool fight scene video, logic explaining it: see 2 pages ago) against much faster opponents. It is not his traditional fighting style, but humans are not robots, we can adapt when the situation calls for it. If Wolverine knows how to dodge, provable by "feats", then by forum rules it is a skill we can use in the debate. He is also fighting opponents who have (by virtue of their cinematic universe's poor choreography) so much slower (other than Jamie who is not too much slower, but slower nonetheless) than the opponents he's faced before, thus the level of difficulty for him to execute the needed defensive moves is much lower than what he is normally used to.

All the above sources I provided, I posted videos showing exactly what I'm saying. Just go back 1-2 pages. It's all there.

I also already posted arguments covering all this within the last 2 pages and if you would be so kind as to review them, I can explain my position further if you have any questions.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
IK but the guy keeps saying he will....Its life, there is lots of unreasonable people out there. Specially those which support their idols instead of reason.

Let's get one thing straight here: I debate for the fun of it. I do not "support" characters like "some" fanboys out there (thus I am also prone to support characters that may or may not be at a disadvatage, cuz who likes to do something that has no challenge?). I'm here because I am bored. So you might want to cut down on the accusations, kiddo.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
See? This is a misconception. I posted a few replies that covers this around 2 pages ago.

Basically, Wolverine blocks because he can and it is the style best suited to his advantages (his top advantages being his damage soak and his unbreakable claws). When he dodges, he does pretty well against multiple opponents who are all far faster than the lead footed Clegane brothers.

One doesn't need to block a full power cut, for Logan to do, he'd have to be an idiot and be unable to change tactics (w/c I proved 2 pages ago was not true). He can always dodge those (as the Mountain and the Hound's power cuts are slow AF. Source: The fight between the 2) or he can just catch them on the downswing (source: ninja battle, early Yakuza battle) as he has what seems to be superstrength (source: ninja battle, X2, X3, X0). One can also just parry or shove the sword aside (source: the HEMA fight video I posted 2 pages ago in reply to Froth) if the opponent's stance points out the tip (to take advantage of the reach).

Bottom line is, Wolverine is not dumb and can change tactics fight if needed (see: argument from 2 pages ago) and can dodge very well (thus it is part of his combat toolkit) when needed (proof: ninja fight scene, Barakpool fight scene video, logic explaining it: see 2 pages ago) against much faster opponents. It is not his traditional fighting style, but humans are not robots, we can adapt when the situation calls for it. If Wolverine knows how to dodge, provable by "feats", then by forum rules it is a skill we can use in the debate.

All the above sources I provided, I posted videos showing exactly what I'm saying. Just go back 1-2 pages. It's all there.

I also already posted arguments covering all this within the last 2 pages and if you would be so kind as to review them, I can explain my position further if you have any questions.

Na im with you for most of it. Its just that hes sans adamantium. And this is Jaime lanister were talking about even within the show when he was starved and completely out of practice he went toe to toe with brienne. we know brienne has beaten both the hound and the lorris and is there fore a very skilled fighter. Im not saying its an instant victory. We know logan can take alot of punishment even when hes not at full healing factor. Fighting JUST one of the cleganes maybe, fighting 2 cleganes hes still got a chance, but throw in the prodigy that is jaime lannister and i dont see how he can pull through.