POLL - Darth Maul: TPM vs Rebels

Originally posted by ILS
Which, needless to say, is a level of personal knowledge one can only have after fighting Maul 2 or 3 times and observing his fights against other characters - something every other character in SW lacks for the most part.

Yeah I've been saying for a while that Kenobi simply has Maul's number, and that's just the wrong fight for Maul. Kind of like Dooku always seemed to have Kenobi's number in their fights.

Still I guess I just have a pretty high opinion of TPM Maul. I know Rebels Maul sort of stalemated Ahsoka for a while, but then there are implications it was dark side amped. And I really don't see TPM Maul losing to Kanan, even in a Oneness state, and especially not on a dark side temple.

So I'd personally put my "safe bet" on TPM Maul over Rebels Maul.

Originally posted by ILS
and is implied by sw.com to be her superior.

Unfortunately, that's at best an inference you can draw since sw.com never specifies why Maul's better suited to protect Ezra. And even if we were to take your inference to be true, we sill have the matter of the nexus and Ahsoka being authoritatively above Maul on even ground.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah I've been saying for a while that Kenobi simply has Maul's number, and that's just the wrong fight for Maul. Kind of like Dooku always seemed to have Kenobi's number in their fights.

Still I guess I just have a pretty high opinion of TPM Maul. I know Rebels Maul sort of stalemated Ahsoka for a while, but then there are implications it was dark side amped. And I really don't see TPM Maul losing to Kanan, even in a Oneness state, and especially not on a dark side temple.

So I'd personally put my "safe bet" on TPM Maul over Rebels Maul.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
It's more about the fact that he's a broken man by the time of Rebels, he has lost all his purpose (which was what initially strengthened him during the Clone Wars) and power (his underworld syndicate). When we see him on Malachor he has been trapped there for years, without any training and has visibly degraded in the physical department. He seems to have advanced in terms of TP (Illusions, mind probing) but that could just be part of his original Sith training at the hands of Sidious.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Fair enough for the most part.

But in this particular case, where we're arguing TPM Maul, I'm also pointing out him not having lost so much potential/raw power yet, and not being mentally broken/stuck in the past.

Even as of TCW S4 and Early S5 Filoni talks about Maul still being in recovery.

So yes, even though a lack of feats is understandable, that also doesn't mean we should just assume he's as good as peak points in his past when he actually did have really good feats.

Originally posted by ILS
If TPM Maul wins, that means Rebels Maul atrophied so badly that he lost all of his power gains between S4-5 of TCW/SoD, and then declined further as to become weaker than his 22 year old self. And in addition, it means his improved experience and wisdom matters so little that it wouldn't swing the fight in his favour

3 reasons :

He isn't as well trained as he was

His actual physical state appears to have atrophied

And the most important one, he clearly lacks the hatred that he once had - which is the fundamental tenant of Sith power, according to Nick Gillard, the difference between entire tiers of skill. TPM Maul doesn't reconcile with his enemy when he knows all is lost. He tries to bite of their hand and spit in their face. He also doesn't die from getting cut in half.

i can buy the hatred point ziggy brings up actually, not bad at all

Originally posted by twotter
3 reasons :

He isn't as well trained as he was

His actual physical state appears to have atrophied

And the most important one, he clearly lacks the [b]hatred that he once had - which is the fundamental tenant of Sith power, according to Nick Gillard, the difference between entire tiers of skill. TPM Maul doesn't reconcile with his enemy when he knows all is lost. He tries to bite of their hand and spit in their face. He also doesn't die from getting cut in half. [/B]

How so?

I don't think his last, dying breath accurately reflects his motivations leading up to that point. He deliberately blinded Kanan, threw him into the vacuum of space, manipulated Ezra into helping him unlock a Sith battlestation which he would have caused who knows how much damage with, trekked across an entire desert to kill Obi-Wan and steal Luke, etc. From all appearances he's still as ambitious as before.

Evidence for Maul increasing:
-> Feloni indicating he grew
-> Maul having more than a decade to grow in power
-> Being in the range of a force user who's feats several years beforehand was performing a better version of Maul's best feats

Evidence for Maul declining:

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Evidence for Maul increasing:
-> Feloni indicating he grew
-> Maul having more than a decade to grow in power
-> Being in the range of a force user who's feats several years beforehand was performing a better version of Maul's best feats

None of that is "Evidence".

Originally posted by Darth Thor
None of that is "Evidence".

Can someone point out to me where the signs of atrophy are?

its pretty typical for force adepts to lose skill and power if they've been out of action for a long time. afaik thats the case for maul, so why wouldnt he be worse

Originally posted by ChocolateMuesli
its pretty typical for force adepts to lose skill and power if they've been out of action for a long time. afaik thats the case for maul, so why wouldnt he be worse

i said afaik kbro, clever as i am i took precaution that i might not be right

Originally posted by |King Joker|

Can someone point out to me where the signs of atrophy are?

big difference tbh, rebels maul is scared and without confidence whereas tcw maul channels his anger far more

Originally posted by ChocolateMuesli
i said afaik kbro, clever as i am i took precaution that i might not be right

Maul was stranded on Malachor for three years. Before that he spent a decade or so where he collected artifacts, caused problems for the empire, and then searched for a holocron. After escaping Malahcor he spent about a year actively searching for Ezra, trying to mold him into his apprentice and then started hunting Kenobi.

Edit: I should add that Maul spent almost a year post sod fighting off a rebellion Ahsoka started

Originally posted by ChocolateMuesli
to ziggys point:

big difference tbh, rebels maul is scared and without confidence whereas tcw maul channels his anger far more

tbh, Maul's facial expression in the first picture is mad stupid, so obviously sod maul is a stupid b!tch compared to his rebels counterpart.

posted like 2 posts and i won already lol i'll let ziggy take it from here gonna go work night shift soon ttyl

C ya choco.

In all seriousness though:

"Maul hasn't experienced any personal growth, he hasn't gotten over anything. He hasn't grown, except in his anger and his need for revenge."