Superman vs World War Hulk and Thanos

Are you guys seriously suggesting that Superman is going to blitz them until they're out cold? Even suggesting this would go against comic book showing for any of the three characters being argued in this very thread. Superman has been hit by characters that move slower than he does, and Thanos and the Hulk have hit characters that can move FTL. The key word here is can.

We aren't supposed to be arguing from a purely power set perspective, because at that point we completely ignore character, and fight in the stead of the character being argued.

Speed seems to be the only thing being argued here. Not sure why they wouldn't be able to hit him if they've already done so to characters that can move as fast?

Read OP.

Also, forum rules.

Also, no one is arguing momentum etc. Carver is arguing that whilst Superman and Flash have great travel speed, and whilst they have great reflex feats, because they don't have combat feats, they are slow.

As if Superman and Flash have one speed for doing everything else, but one speed for fighting.

Hence my q about the pencil.

Originally posted by cdtm
What did Superman do, mug a relative or something? 😛

Thanos got trashed by an Avengers team. He feared clashing with Hulk, and chose to bfr Champion rather then face him.. Ben Grimm and Thor (Using his fist) sent him flying. Frankly, he's never fought someone as powerful as Superman in a fair fight (Someone will say Surfer, and I'll say "Head back to CBR. 😛 )

As for Hulk, well.. he's slow, and nothing Supes hasn't face before.

The speed makes all the difference.

Let me go all the way back to this post. Thanos is no longer as weak as he was back in those days. He was levitating in those days, he now has the ability to fly at FTL speeds, based on his fight with PF Thane. Should I remind you of what kind of trouble weaker PF Avatars have caused teams of Avengers?

It's impossible to debate comics post-Bendis.

Particularly Thor and Thanos' stock has reached an absolute all-time low.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Read OP.

Also, forum rules.

Also, no one is arguing momentum etc. Carver is arguing that whilst Superman and Flash have great travel speed, and whilst they have great reflex feats, because they don't have combat feats, they are slow.

As if Superman and Flash have one speed for doing everything else, but one speed for fighting.

Hence my q about the pencil.

If the Flash has been hit in combat, or Superman has been hit as well in combat, it makes it possible to hit them. I can't see either side as playing this fairly down the line. I saw Carver's comment on the sedan catch.

The scene could be explained in many different ways. I'll just ignore it because he's shown far more strength than that one showing. momentum is something that most veteran characters have run into many times from Thor, Captain Marvel, Superman, and the Hulk.

I'm not going there. I'm saying that because Superman has been hit, it is not impossible to hit him. Maybe if this were the Blob who really has no feats of hitting FTL characters, we could say that he'd be frozen in time, but the Hulk and Thanos both have feats of easily hitting characters that can move at these speeds in terms of evasive maneuvering.

Thanos alone, can play games with any or all of Galactus' heralds at once. They can all cross a solar system in a blink of an eye.

But OP has specifically said Superman's highest ever showings (no amps) are being used here.

So with that in mind, you think at his highest ever showings, and I guess WWHs average showings, he's gonna get tagged?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Read OP.

Also, forum rules.

Also, no one is arguing momentum etc. Carver is arguing that whilst Superman and Flash have great travel speed, and whilst they have great reflex feats, because they don't have combat feats, they are slow.

As if Superman and Flash have one speed for doing everything else, but one speed for fighting.

Hence my q about the pencil.

Also DS to be fair. I worked all week, and had no time to really follow the thread. Nor do I really want to go back, but will to see how this formed into... well this.

I just think that people should render a fair conclusion.

Win% should also come into play here at some point.

Originally posted by Stoic
Let me go all the way back to this post. Thanos is no longer as weak as he was back in those days. He was levitating in those days, he now has the ability to fly at FTL speeds, based on his fight with PF Thane. Should I remind you of what kind of trouble weaker PF Avatars have caused teams of Avengers?

Could you not apply the same logic to Superman and Darkseid?

At the time of Apokolips Now, everybody got that Darkseid was weak. But, Superman beating him doesn't remove that Darkseid's given trouble to entire teams, including GL's like Guy Gardner, nor that he literally ignored attacks from the likes of Lobo and Wonder Woman.

Plus lesser New Gods like Kanto are beastly against upper tier characters, such as J'onn.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But OP has specifically said Superman's highest ever showings (no amps) are being used here.

So with that in mind, you think at his highest ever showings, and I guess WWHs average showings, he's gonna get tagged?

Well he did tag Sentry, and the Sentry lives a few seconds ahead in time. WW Hulk tagged him stylishly enough for me to believe that it is possible. Not to mention Thanos who is currently able to contend with a PF Avatar. According to what was given on panel, Thane was one of the most powerful PF Avatars ever. Thane could basically destroy all of Galactus' heralds at once, and do it with ease. Superman is unamped here. I read the OP.

Originally posted by Stoic
Also DS to be fair. I worked all week, and had no time to really follow the thread. Nor do I really want to go back, but will to see how this formed into... well this.

I just think that people should render a fair conclusion.

Win% should also come into play here at some point.

With respect (and I mean that), I'm fairly certain the rules of most boards, including this one, are meant specifically to ignore win/loss records in favor of feats.

So for example, if someone like Gorgon had a 100% loss record, yet his feats suggest he should absolutely stomp Shang Chi or Iron Fist (For the sake of argument. I know Gorgon's record is solid, and we both know how I feel about Mr. Rand. 😉 ), it would be viable to argue Gorgon wins a majority. Despite it never having happened in a comic (Even if he never won against anybody.). Same thing for, say, Batman vs Karate Kid, where Bats has no real business beating Val in a straight fight. (I also know many would argue against this..)

One COULD potentially argue a psychological reason someone would lose, like a mental block/self destructive tendency/stupidity, but that's different then just looking at the numbers.

Originally posted by cdtm
Could you not apply the same logic to Superman and Darkseid?

At the time of Apokolips Now, everybody got that Darkseid was weak. But, Superman beating him doesn't remove that Darkseid's given trouble to entire teams, including GL's like Guy Gardner, nor that he literally ignored attacks from the likes of Lobo and Wonder Woman.

Plus lesser New Gods like Kanto are beastly against upper tier characters, such as J'onn.

Ahhh. But, Superman has never ever defeated the true Darkseid, and if you thought as much, you would have likely contested a recent argument from another poster on the matter.

Darkseid should never be used in versus threads until we know what his true level actually is. If he's a Celestial level character then let him be that, and not some Avatar capable of being hurt by Orion, GL's and other herald level attacks.

Thanos has never been obscured to the point that we couldn't make heads or tails of his power levels throughout the years. Thanos is now capable of waging wars with Celestial beings, which should by all rights place him well above Odin.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well he did tag Sentry, and the Sentry lives a few seconds ahead in time. WW Hulk tagged him stylishly enough for me to believe that it is possible. Not to mention Thanos who is currently able to contend with a PF Avatar. According to what was given on panel, Thane was one of the most powerful PF Avatars ever. Thane could basically destroy all of Galactus' heralds at once, and do it with ease. Superman is unamped here. I read the OP.

And at the same time, WWH was tagged. By many many people.

OP I don't think is using Current Thanos, as he said:

Thanos got trashed by an Avengers team. He feared clashing with Hulk, and chose to bfr Champion rather then face him.. Ben Grimm and Thor (Using his fist) sent him flying. Frankly, he's never fought someone as powerful as Superman in a fair fight

Unless he thinks PF Thane is Superman level lol.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well he did tag Sentry, and the Sentry lives a few seconds ahead in time. WW Hulk tagged him stylishly enough for me to believe that it is possible. Not to mention Thanos who is currently able to contend with a PF Avatar. According to what was given on panel, Thane was one of the most powerful PF Avatars ever. Thane could basically destroy all of Galactus' heralds at once, and do it with ease. Superman is unamped here. I read the OP.

Sentry isn't specially faster than any other heroes in hand to hand.

He has good reflexes but that's pretty much all of that.

He isn't skilled or quick, at all.

Originally posted by cdtm
What did Superman do, mug a relative or something? 😛

Thanos got trashed by an Avengers team. He feared clashing with Hulk, and chose to bfr Champion rather then face him.. Ben Grimm and Thor (Using his fist) sent him flying. Frankly, he's never fought someone as powerful as Superman in a fair fight (Someone will say Surfer, and I'll say "Head back to CBR. 😛 )

As for Hulk, well.. he's slow, and nothing Supes hasn't face before.

The speed makes all the difference.

You basically made a thread that we will use Thanos' absolute lowest moment, then turn around and make more out of a statement than is possibly warranted, and take Superman's best. You realize that the team that beat up on Thanos would have beaten up on Superman as well? That team of Avengers happened to be a powerful team.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And at the same time, WWH was tagged. By many many people.

OP I don't think is using Current Thanos, as he said:

Unless he thinks PF Thane is Superman level lol.

What exactly is Superman's unamped best? Show us.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Sentry isn't specially faster than any other heroes in hand to hand.

He has good reflexes but that's pretty much all of that.

He isn't skilled or quick, at all.

Really? He's actually shown super combat speed when the Hulk became Wendihulk. Do you remember the story?

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Sentry isn't specially faster than any other heroes in hand to hand.

He has good reflexes but that's pretty much all of that.

He isn't skilled or quick, at all.

It also stated that Sentry lives a few seconds into the future.

Originally posted by cdtm
What did Superman do, mug a relative or something? 😛

Thanos got trashed by an Avengers team. He feared clashing with Hulk, and chose to bfr Champion rather then face him.. Ben Grimm and Thor (Using his fist) sent him flying. Frankly, he's never fought someone as powerful as Superman in a fair fight (Someone will say Surfer, and I'll say "Head back to CBR. 😛 )

As for Hulk, well.. he's slow, and nothing Supes hasn't face before.

The speed makes all the difference.

Thanos expresses having chosen to avoid facing Hulk in the past, yet the same writer has shown him dominating Hulk. You left out the fact of Champion possessing the power gem. Ben and Thor fight him pre-death/power up.

And The Maker is significantly more powerful than Superman. Thanos alone would dominate the best Superman.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Sentry isn't specially faster than any other heroes in hand to hand.

He has good reflexes but that's pretty much all of that.

He isn't skilled or quick, at all.

What?

Not many heros pulling off something like that.

...Why is this still open? I mean, 11 pages is great and all, but still. Closing soon. Don't know how I missed it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
...Why is this still open? I mean, 11 pages is great and all, but still. Closing soon. Don't know how I missed it.

Why close it? Just curious.