Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So no showings with a pencil then?I didn't ask for trees. I asked for a pencil.
But it's good to see that you're using logic. Lifting something similar to a pencil is just as good as lifting a pencil, as you wouldn't have any showings with pencils.
I don't get why you asked me that though. I can show you both lifting something much heavier than a ton pencil... are you implying you can find something better than Superman supposedly blitzing around?
Originally posted by carver9
I don't get why you asked me that though. I can show you both lifting something much heavier than a ton pencil... are you implying you can find something better than Superman supposedly blitzing around?
Yes but that's not what I'm asking for.
Hulk's pencil lifting feats are absolutely crap.
Originally posted by Stoic
If you do then why the handicap? It's as if you need to bolster Superman while nerfing these guys to their lowest showings. In that case since Hulk is Hulk why not pit the Thanos that got arrested in what appeared to be nearly a Hostess Twinkie story, and the Hulk that was choked out by a snake to give Superman the win here?Under normal circumstances he'd lose. The majority of Earth based characters would.
Because I believe Supes is especially lowballed, and felt the need to force the issue.
I could extend the same to the team, but didn't because (IMO), Hulk fans (Carv) and Thanos fans (Quan) argue from an "optimal" build anyways... How often does someone say "Hulk is struggling here. Hulk is weak", like Carv does on Supes speed?
And so far it looks like we're getting a decent back and forth..
I'll end my speech by admitting to a personal "chip on shoulder" that I don't intend to extend past this thread, and would ask for leeway. If not, I completely understand..
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes but that's not what I'm asking for.Hulk's pencil lifting feats are absolutely crap.
Oookkkkaaaayyy!!! 😕
I don't get what that have to do with Surfer creating adamantium in Superman brain or Thor throwing his hammer at Superman letting Mjlonir take care of him while he sit back and watch. Or Hal creating construct JLA sending them to stomp Superman... hell, just keep making a group of JLA continuously until he is fatigued. This is the proper way to debate huh? Ignore comics and just power debate. Surfer, Thor, and Hal pulls a 10/10 against Superman. I can even make an argument for Stardust if we are debating power set. Black hole creating around herself, then create black holes around Superman.
Originally posted by carver9
Oookkkkaaaayyy!!! 😕I don't get what that have to do with Surfer creating adamantium in Superman brain or Thor throwing his hammer at Superman letting Mjlonir take care of him while he sit back and watch. Or Hal creating construct JLA sending them to stomp Superman... hell, just keep making a group of JLA continuously until he is fatigued. This is the proper way to debate huh? Ignore comics and just power debate. Surfer, Thor, and Hal pulls a 10/10 against Superman. I can even make an argument for Stardust if we are debating power set. Black hole creating around herself, then create black holes around Superman.
Lol.
You really don't get it, do you?
Here, I will spoonfeed it to you side by side with my analogy. The analogy, btw, will be in square brackets.
Superman/Flash are able to do XYZ at high speeds (read letters, have entire conversations, learn complex surgical procedures, move their eyes at lightspeed whilst understanding what they're doing etc).
[Hulk is able to lift a mountain]
Superman/Flash know how to throw a punch.
[Hulk knows how to lift a pencil]
Superman/Flash are therefore able to fight at high speeds, as they are able to do everything else at high speeds
[Hulk is therefore able to lift a 1 ton pencil]
Carver: Yeah, but we go by showings. Show me scans of them fighting at high speeds. Crap scans, crap combat speed.
[DS: Yeah, but we go by showings. Show me scans of Hulk lifting a 1 ton pencil.
Crap scans, crap pencil lifting]
Let's not debate by powersets. By powerset, Batman is just a human.
By feats, he is trans-level. Right?
Who is stronger: TOAA, or Batman? Show scans, please.
Who is faster?
More durable?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol.You really don't get it, do you?
Here, I will spoonfeed it to you side by side with my analogy. The analogy, btw, will be in square brackets.
Superman/Flash are able to do XYZ at high speeds (read letters, have entire conversations, learn complex surgical procedures, move their eyes at lightspeed whilst understanding what they're doing etc).
[Hulk is able to lift a mountain]
Superman/Flash know how to throw a punch.
[Hulk knows how to lift a pencil]
Superman/Flash are therefore able to fight at high speeds, as they are able to do everything else at high speeds
[Hulk is therefore able to lift a 1 ton pencil]
Carver: Yeah, but we go by showings. Show me scans of them fighting at high speeds. Crap scans, crap combat speed.
[DS: Yeah, but we go by showings. Show me scans of Hulk lifting a 1 ton pencil.
Crap scans, crap pencil lifting]Let's not debate by powersets. By powerset, Batman is just a human.
By feats, he is trans-level. Right?
Who is stronger: TOAA, or Batman? Show scans, please.
Who is faster?
More durable?
This is what is being done. "Superman can read a book at super speed, build a house at super speed, etc, etc... This means that Hulk can't touch him". Carver9 post a scan of someone slower than Hulk caving Superman chest in. "Carver9, that's PIS, I just showed you a scan of Superman making a sandwich at super speed. Here, Superman is catching bullets while at the same time playing chest". Carver9 post a scan of Kalibak koing Superman. "Carver, that doesn't count, I just showed you superman playing chest at super speed while catching bullets. Here is another scan of Superman building a house". I then post a scan of Superman being dropped by a slow brick in the same book. "Carver, did you not see Superman build that house at super speed".
Moral of the story is, I ignore everything that goes on in the comics to make you all happy and just accept that outside of combat, Superman can do things at super speed. This is what I am getting from this debate. It's like me posting a showing of Surfer creating a house with just a thought and in the same book getting koed by Hulk (because the only thing he did was blast and circle Hulk) and discredit the showing for Hulk because Surfer didn't create an adamantium casket in Hulks brain. We might as well discredit every fight Thor has had since he doesnt use a percentage of his abilities during combat. Thor on the forum should be able to stomp Thanos head in with ease IF we are debating anything like what was said here. Me, I don't ignore what is shown in the comics to justify a character winning or losing. You can do that. I've learned something, hell, just realized it. This is the way you debate Darksaint and you're trying to throw it off on other people. Midnighter threads, you say he wins the majority by opening doors during the beginning of the match. Wonder Woman threads, you give her the majority against almost anyone by saying during the beginning of the match she wraps her opponent up in the lasso. Deathstroke you said he wins by absorbing attacks and redirecting them. The list is long but you have one way of debating and that is a "straight to the point" kind of battle winning. I don't debate like this... majority of the forum doesn't. It's irrelevant posting scans debating in this fashion. I can just go into a thread and end it by saying "Surfer opens an adamantium toaster in his brain for the 10/10. People have commented on this to you before. We don't create the way a character fight, we use scans to determine that.
Originally posted by carver9
This is what is being done. "Superman can read a book at super speed, build a house at super speed, etc, etc... This means that Hulk can't touch him". Carver9 post a scan of someone slower than Hulk caving Superman chest in. "Carver9, that's PIS, I just showed you a scan of Superman making a sandwich at super speed. Here, Superman is catching bullets while at the same time playing chest". Carver9 post a scan of Kalibak koing Superman. "Carver, that doesn't count, I just showed you superman playing chest at super speed while catching bullets. Here is another scan of Superman building a house". I then post a scan of Superman being dropped by a slow brick in the same book. "Carver, did you not see Superman build that house at super speed".Moral of the story is, I ignore everything that goes on in the comics to make you all happy and just accept that outside of combat, Superman can do things at super speed. This is what I am getting from this debate. It's like me posting a showing of Surfer creating a house with just a thought and in the same book getting koed by Hulk (because the only thing he did was blast and circle Hulk) and discredit the showing for Hulk because Surfer didn't create an adamantium casket in Hulks brain. We might as well discredit every fight Thor has had since he doesnt use a percentage of his abilities during combat. Thor on the forum should be able to stomp Thanos head in with ease IF we are debating anything like what was said here. Me, I don't ignore what is shown in the comics to justify a character winning or losing. You can do that. I've learned something, hell, just realized it. This is the way you debate Darksaint and you're trying to throw it off on other people. Midnighter threads, you say he wins the majority by opening doors during the beginning of the match. Wonder Woman threads, you give her the majority against almost anyone by saying during the beginning of the match she wraps her opponent up in the lasso. Deathstroke you said he wins by absorbing attacks and redirecting them. The list is long but you have one way of debating and that is a "straight to the point" kind of battle winning. I don't debate like this... majority of the forum doesn't. It's irrelevant posting scans debating in this fashion. I can just go into a thread and end it by saying "Surfer opens an adamantium toaster in his brain for the 10/10. People have commented on this to you before. We don't create the way a character fight, we use scans to determine that.
Carver9 pwns Darksaint85 with little effort. I agree with you my friend. 👆
@carver:
That's because I am always using the fighters 'in character'.
I'm NOT debating powerset.
Superman is not stupid. Agree, yes/no?
He jobs.
Just like Diana, a skilled tactician, will fight to win. You yourself have argued this, and I agree with you.
Midnighter also fights to win. Hell, he even cheats. At least one can argue Diana wouldn't use her lasso because she might see it as cheating.
Deathstroke? He doesn't relish fights. Bad for business. He gets the job done, as quickly and as efficiently as possible.
Another guy you forgot to mention was that cheating SOB, Constantine. Who also eschews looking flashy, and just goes for the quick win, even if it means cheating.
Superman? In this thread, he's smart as hell. Cunning. Against the Elite, he separated the team, picked them off one by one, and used his speed.
You're arguing the same way I've seen guys argue with martial artists. They argue that fights would be long drawn out affairs, like a ballet dance, because they've seen beautifully choreographed fights in movies which go on and on. Or they're thinking of boxing matches where both sides trade punches.
In reality, many fights are over if one side has a weapon that ends things (a gun, a lasso of truth, doors,or in this case, speed) quickly.
Superman has speed. He has intelligence. He has strength. He's not testing his opponent out, or talking them down. He knows WWH is a damn powerful opponent, and his knows Thanos is...well, it's fricking Thanos, lol.
So why would he come out at the start of the bell, slow as hell, getting tagged? He's not a pacifist like Surfer. He's not a warrior like Thor, who relishes battle, and would prefer fighting forever if he could.
This is what you never got about my arguments. They're all in character.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Superman? In this thread, he's smart as hell. Cunning. Against the Elite, he separated the team, picked them off one by one, and used his speed.
He CHARGED them using his flying speed...
Here he is facing two beings whom can kill him while he is trying that or simply block the incoming charge via sheer strength.
Originally posted by Stoic
Charging? That's not what happened.
You was talking about his fight against Wendihulk. Yes, the only fast thing he did during that fight was charging and then punching (at normal speed) Hulk.
When you find what I'm talking about
I already did and your answer shows that you are missing the point.
and still want to deny that Sentry is capable of super combat speed keep it to yourself,
I know Sentry better than you do so far he never showed super-speed in combat. Sentry isn't especially the guy you think first when it comes to combat speed.
because evidently the on panel evidence presented to you by Tkitna
He showed Sentry blocking a projectile ffs...
There is no relation between the ability to throw and block/avoid punches and the ability to stop a projectile. Period.
did little to sway that over inflated ego of yours.
Yeah yeah.
Firstly learn when a feat is relevant then maybe you could have the right to throw those ridiculous personal attacks. 😂
Try again.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Btw, Carver:. Wanna see Kalibak vs Superman?Even with tons of backup....
Where is Superman's combat speed ?
Not in that thread for sure. 😂
Originally posted by RealityWarper
You was talking about his fight against Wendihulk. Yes, the only fast thing he did during that fight was charging and then punching (at normal speed) Hulk.I already did and your answer shows that you are missing the point.
I know Sentry better than you do so far he never showed super-speed in combat. Sentry isn't especially the guy you think first when it comes to combat speed.
He showed Sentry blocking a projectile ffs...
There is no relation between the ability to throw and block/avoid punches and the ability to stop a projectile. Period.
Yeah yeah.
Firstly learn when a feat is relevant then maybe you could have the right to throw those ridiculous personal attacks. 😂
Try again.
Just stop while you're ahead. The scan shows that he has the ability to fight at super speeds.