Superman vs. Avengers

Originally posted by Robtard
If we're going with the nonsense of "Vision's going to stay intangible the whole fight", then we must accept the nonsense of Superman's going to be in superspeed the whole fight (fair is fair, right?), so neither can hurt each other here and it goes to as noted earlier a stalemate, with all the other Avengers bruised, bleeding and KO'd.

Not too bad for a 1 Vs 7, right

Yup, that's pretty much what I said here, just said from different sides of the equation:

Originally posted by FrothByte
Let's be honest here: Superman doesn't fight in superspeed ALL the time. He certainly uses it in combat, but he doesn't fight an entire battle continuously in superspeed. In the same vein, Vision doesn't fight continuously while intangible, Thor doesn't fight continuously coated in his lightning aura, and Scarlet Witch doesn't always have her shields up. They've shown the ability to use it in battle, but they don't fight continuously with these abilities turned on for the entire fight.

So if people here want to argue that Superman is going to fight out of character and move in superspeed the entire duration, then it's only fair to apply the same principle to the Avengers in which case Vision fights the entirety as intangible, Thor has his lightning aura on the entire time, and SW has her shields up constantly.

With this fair stipulation applied to all, the best case scenario that Superman can hope for is that he's able to take out every Avenger except for Vision. Doesn't matter how fast or strong Superman is, he can't harm what he can't touch. Then it becomes a matter of who gets tired first. I do know that Vision is powered by an infinity stone and doesn't need to eat or sleep like Superman does. And I do know that a phased hand through Superman's brain will hurt Clark a lot more than any single attack of his can hurt Vision.

And that's already the best case scenario for Superman. We haven't even taken into consideration what kind of damage Thor and SW can bring on him.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Superman is fast but not that fast. Vision can turn intangible at will. Superman can probably land a few hits before Vision will turn intangible again but if you want to claim that that Superman is fast enough to land a ton of hits on Vision before Vision can form a thought then you'll need to back that up with something quantifiable.

The fact that someone faster than vision, WW, was a statue to him. He should be able to land quite a bit more than a few hits. Moving so fast that other people with bullet time super speed (WW) are statues is INSANE for movie feats. How many hits would you guess it would take to put vision down?

Originally posted by emporerpants
The fact that someone faster than vision, WW, was a statue to him. He should be able to land quite a bit more than a few hits.

Except a thought travels a lot faster than moving your body. I'm not saying Superman can't land a number of hits on Vision in a split second, but saying he can land tons of hits is a bit of an exaggeration. Superman has no feats of doing something like that.

Sorry, I edited some more into my post that you likely didn't see. Keep in mind that WW is a legit bullet timer. In the beginning of the movie she blocked a whole clip from a machine gun while moving. Now think about the fact that even she was a statue compared to Supes. That is INSANE for movie speed. Imo, until vision gets better speed feats, by the time vision registers he is being hit, he will have been too damaged to do much about it.

By the way, I gotta say Frothbyte, it's fun to have a civil convo with someone about which superhero beats which other superhero. lol. So mad props on being fun to talk to, reasonable, and not name calling.

Originally posted by emporerpants
Sorry, I edited some more into my post that you likely didn't see. Keep in mind that WW is a legit bullet timer. In the beginning of the movie she blocked a whole clip from a machine gun while moving. Now think about the fact that even she was a statue compared to Supes. That is INSANE for movie speed. Imo, until vision gets better speed feats, by the time vision registers he is being hit, he will have been too damaged to do much about it.

I would have agreed, except that WW didn't seem to have a speed advantage over Steppenwolf who was not portrayed as a speedster. So a lot of inconsistency there. Kinda hard to base an argument on WW when WW's speed is so inconsistent.

Originally posted by emporerpants
By the way, I gotta say Frothbyte, it's fun to have a civil convo with someone about which superhero beats which other superhero. lol. So mad props on being fun to talk to, reasonable, and not name calling.

Thanks. There are some here who are decent, who won't resort to insults as long as everyone does the same. Problem is the loudest posters are usually not these people. lol.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Thanks. There are some here who are decent, who won't resort to insults as long as everyone does the same. Problem is the loudest posters are usually not these people. lol.

Indeed. lol.

Ok, so imo Supes straight up wins 6/10 with the other 4 fights being stalemates due to vision maintaining intangibility and Supes going super speed with the other avengers getting knocked out. I think that is a reasonable conclusion.

Originally posted by emporerpants
Superman uses his super speed and pounds Thor and Hulk into oblivion while they are statues compared to him. Can you think of a reason why that wouldn't happen that doesn't involve lowballing, Batman using k-nite, or out of context situations? Oops, did I just throw out your entire repertoire of arguments due to them being stupid? I did? Ouch. Get your crap out of here fanboy.

If Batman can weather this farm-boys attacks why can't Thor and Hulk ? They have durability in spades. Superman isn't a mindless killer and despite his superspeed he didn't defeat anyone in Justice League before they could hit him back or react. You're a dim witted fanboy who can't accept the simple fact just because you're faster doesn't mean you can't or won't be hit.

You don't have a single example to back up your flimsy cbr debate.

🙂

Originally posted by Robtard
When did I say "Superman will be in super speed the whole fight" here? I didn't, that's something you're making up. I said Superman could go into super speed when Vision turns solid, which would be Superman fighting in super speed, something we have feats for. Face it, Superman alone is above the Avengers with his latest showing.

Avengers crush him. Super speed has been dealt with by the team as a minor issue with Quicksilver.

No big deal.

Avengers rage stomp.

Originally posted by quanchi112
When has that happened before ? We see against WW despite his speed edge she lassos him and headbutts him. Why didn't he use superspeed against a human named Batman ? Slower reflexes, less powerful character, less durable, etc. It isn't the Knite it's the fact he was fast enough to tag superman multiple times and weather his attacks. Focus on my argument not the Knite.

If Batman can weather this farm-boys attacks why can't Thor and Hulk ? They have durability in spades. Superman isn't a mindless killer and despite his superspeed he didn't defeat anyone in Justice League before they could hit him back or react. You're a dim witted fanboy who can't accept the simple fact just because you're faster doesn't mean you can't or won't be hit.

You don't have a single example to back up your flimsy cbr debate.

🙂

So lowballing? check. Using BVS out of context? Check. Bringing up Batman again sans proper context and attributing Supes being weakened due to k-nite as the standard? check. Somehow equating a k-nite weakened Superman who didn't want to fight to what we have seen recently JL, in order to try to have an semblance of an argument to justify your irrational hatred? check. Resorting to name calling? check. Did I miss something, or does that just about sum up your piss poor, biased, and poorly thought out argument against a character that you have frequently said you hate, and have been totally biases against in every post you have ever made about him?

About what I expected honestly.

Originally posted by emporerpants
So lowballing? check. Using BVS out of context? Check. Bringing up Batman again sans proper context and attributing Supes being weakened due to k-nite as the standard? check. Somehow equating a k-nite weakened Superman who didn't want to fight to what we have seen recently JL, in order to try to have an semblance of an argument to justify your irrational hatred? check. Resorting to name calling? check. Did I miss something, or does that just about sum up your piss poor, biased, and poorly thought out argument against a character that you have frequently said you hate, and have been totally biases against in every post you have ever made about him?

About what I expected honestly.

I am saying Batman is fast enough to use traps, gunfire, and his own weaponry to hit Superman with while at full power. I am not saying Hulk throws Knite at Superman I am saying if Batman is fast enough to hit him as is WW then why not Hulk/Thor/etc.

Superman's mother's fate was tied into the outcome of his fight with Batman. You aren't going to motivate him much more than with his stepmother or his Lois.

The Justice League didn't want to fight so either you admit you're using a double standard because you're clearly Superman biased or kindly just concede the point to yours truly.

At no point does Super a use superspeed to defeat a clearly weaker and slower villain in Steppenwolf. It's just silly. If he can't use his superspeed to at least disarm and beat Batman into submission what chance do you believe he has here.

Uh huh. Why didn't Superman do all those these against Batman? Possibly because he had no need to in his eyes? Possibly because he had no idea k-nite even existed so why bother doing all of that right away since your opponent has no way of hurting you?

He also very clearly tried to talk Bruce down. He even said he could have killed Batman if he wanted to. He very OBVIOUSLY didn't want to fight. He straight up said it.

Even if the Justice League didn't want to fight it doesn't change the fact he was too fast and too strong for them. That couldn't have been made more clear. What, do you need the film makers to sit you down personally and tell you? Even then you'd likely not believe it.

So are you really saying that just because he didn't beat Steppenwolf with super speed it is somehow weak? I guess Thor's lighting is weak sauce since he didn't use it to beat loki in Thor 1 or Avengers huh? So is Superman's freeze breath ultra uuber because it contributed to Steppenwolf's defeat?

And once again, you low balling and taking things out of context. You really aren't worth talking to about topics involving Superman. Give it a rest and enjoy the holidays.

Originally posted by emporerpants
Indeed. lol.

Ok, so imo Supes straight up wins 6/10 with the other 4 fights being stalemates due to vision maintaining intangibility and Supes going super speed with the other avengers getting knocked out. I think that is a reasonable conclusion.

Sure, I can agree to that. Maybe Wanda can put in a lucky psychic attack somewhere in there. But Superman mostly dominates the fight, with Thor and Vision giving him a bit of challenge.

Just seen Justice League. And Oh boy.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Just seen Justice League. And Oh boy.

Is that a good or bad "Oh boy"?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Is that a good or bad "Oh boy"?

Not about the film. About Superman showing his full abilities. It’s gonna be an almost battle for any Avenger (save Vision) vs Superman.

^ Almost “impossible” battle.

Can’t bloody edit.

IYO, if JL Superman is an overall 10 in formidability. what are the other JL members?

Wonder Woman
Cyborg
Flash
Aquaman

.