Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No, it's not trolling at all, it's making a point. Ok, let me put this another way.Superman's ability to make diamonds out of coal with his bare hands is well known. DCEU Superman can do it too, because he shares that powerset. Now, Clark in any good guy universe could be as rich as Bruce Wayne by turning a sack of coal you can buy at a gas station into diamonds more pure and clear and better cut than any on Earth. Would he do this in character? No. Can he do it? Absolutely. Now imagine that same pressure applied to say Vision's gem, or Cap's skull.
Another example: We never see DCEU, or any other form of Superman take a dump. It's not in his character because it's never seen. But can he do it? I think he can, and moreover must, because he is still a biological entity.
And another. Superman doesn't masturbate. It's never seen, thus not in character. But CAN he? I think you know the answer.
Ok, now over the top examples aside, We HAVE seen Superman deploy multiple superpowers at once before, Superspeed, Flight and Superstrength. We have also seen him deploy heat vision. Why could he not deploy heat vision while flying and using speed? "Because we've never seen him do so, thus it's not within character!" My reply will now be, "We don't see him poop either, do we conclude he is constantly constipated?"
The argument has no foundation beyond it was not onscreen and therefore is impossible, despite being very possible.
So I make this suggestion in leau of discrediting a method of attack that is POSSIBLE. Instead of arguing whether or not superman should or would do a particular attack well within his power set, and if pushed hard enough would definitely use, why not use your teams abilities to COUNTER said attack? I can see at least two ways to stop Superman cold as he makes that kind of attack. Let me give you a hint.
One is a glowing jewel.
The other is a clap on roids.
Btw, we've seen Supes use Flight and Heat Vision simutaneously when fighting Doomsday...
There is zero reason why he couldn't add Super Speed to this; other than fanboys that don't want to admit that Supes could crush the Avengers using this combo of course...
Why would Superman need to dodge hits from Aquaman, WW, or Batman when they pose no threat to him at all. If you thought he was going all out against the JL you are delusional. He was hardly trying . If Superman chose to fight at Superspeed like he does with the Flash, he would win easily.
The only threat is Thor or Vision.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Superman doesn't go all out against heroes which is my point. The guy cried when he killed Zod who attempted genocide, murdered his father, their fight killed thousands iirc as well. JL held back as did Superman.Batman does pose a threat if he's going all out and using weakness exploitation.
Nah.
Under that mentality then, why would either side fight the toher at all then? Since we are talking In-Character Only, the only reason they would fight would be writers plot wouldn't it?
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroYes, since heroes fight each other. Superman's morality has been referenced in his own films as an inherent weakness. Superman did fight Batman but he was not trying to kill him. Batman was more ruthless and tactical using weakness exploitation hence why he won.
Under that mentality then, why would either side fight the toher at all then? Since we are talking In-Character Only, the only reason they would fight would be writers plot wouldn't it?
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, since heroes fight each other. Superman's morality has been referenced in his own films as an inherent weakness. Superman did fight Batman but he was not trying to kill him. Batman was more ruthless and tactical using weakness exploitation hence why he won.
And such a weakness doesn't exist among the ranks of the avengers? I mean Superman has killed at least twice onscreen.
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroDue to innocents being threatened and facing evil characters. That isn't my point that they will use the same means. My point is he still fought back without trying to kill when his mother's life was on the line. Superman's morality will always be a weakness.
And such a weakness doesn't exist among the ranks of the avengers? I mean Superman has killed at least twice onscreen.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Due to innocents being threatened and facing evil characters. That isn't my point that they will use the same means. My point is he still fought back without trying to kill when his mother's life was on the line. Superman's morality will always be a weakness.
But he DID kill Doomsday, whom didn't directly threaten people the way Zod did. and if the others had not talked him down, he would have killed Batfleck.
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroDoomsday was trying to kill WW and Batman.
But he DID kill Doomsday, whom didn't directly threaten people the way Zod did. and if the others had not talked him down, he would have killed Batfleck.
Nah. He might have hurt him more but he wouldn't just kill Batman. That isn't who Superman is. Bruce had Lois there so he still defeated Superman because he knew what would make him stop. He's too good mentally for the Boy Scout.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Doomsday was trying to kill WW and Batman.Nah. He might have hurt him more but he wouldn't just kill Batman. That isn't who Superman is. Bruce had Lois there so he still defeated Superman because he knew what would make him stop. He's too good mentally for the Boy Scout.
Under that logic, it also applies to guys like Cap, IM, and even Hawkeye. Vision and Hulk have never killed anyone really... (Not sure after Ragnorok with regards to hulk via that Arena). The only ones who are willing to openly kill, are BW, and the biggest open threat to Supes, Thor.
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroHulk doesn't have the self control Superman does and are you forgetting Doug. (Ah you mentioned Ragnarok later in your post) All heroes aren't the same just as WW kills despite being a hero. Superman resisted killing a genocidal maniac who killed his father.
Under that logic, it also applies to guys like Cap, IM, and even Hawkeye. Vision and Hulk have never killed anyone really... (Not sure after Ragnorok with regards to hulk via that Arena). The only ones who are willing to openly kill, are BW, and the biggest open threat to Supes, Thor.
Thor doesn't have to kill Superman to beat him. He routinely beats his brother who is ruthless without killing.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Can you give me one legit reason why he cant use Heat Vision + Speed Blitz?"Because he's never done so before" is a weak argument and wont cut it; its in his powerset and there is nothing to logically stop him from doing so...
Can you sing properly while running at full speed? Can you sustain a loud shout while doing pushups as fast as you can?
We debate with feats here. Show a feat where Superman speed blitzes with heat vision otherwise he can't do it.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Hulk doesn't have the self control Superman does and are you forgetting Doug. (Ah you mentioned Ragnarok later in your post) All heroes aren't the same just as WW kills despite being a hero. Superman resisted killing a genocidal maniac who killed his father.Thor doesn't have to kill Superman to beat him. He routinely beats his brother who is ruthless without killing.
Thor does have restraint now I guess, but he was willing to commit mass genocide on the frost giants. And he was willing to sacrifice Asgard to kill Hela via Surtur.
If logic follows, Superman may well turn Homicidal once Darkside or Braniac are introduced. Stepphenwolf mentioned Darkside precisely once during JL.... so that could prove interesting indeed.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Under that logic, it also applies to guys like Cap, IM, and even Hawkeye. Vision and Hulk have never killed anyone really... (Not sure after Ragnorok with regards to hulk via that Arena). The only ones who are willing to openly kill, are BW, and the biggest open threat to Supes, Thor.
Cap and IM have killed multiple times in their own movies and did it without hesitation.
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroYes, he is more likely to kill than Superman but look at their different experiences and different fathers. One grew up as a warrior one grew up as a farmboy.
Thor does have restraint now I guess, but he was willing to commit mass genocide on the frost giants. And he was willing to sacrifice Asgard to kill Hela via Surtur.If logic follows, Superman may well turn Homicidal once Darkside or Braniac are introduced. Stepphenwolf mentioned Darkside precisely once during JL.... so that could prove interesting indeed.
Asgard is a people not a place and that was his only chance to stop Hela.
Any character with a hex or mind control can change drastically but as it stands now he has morals and killing is a last option.
I would like to see Brainiac in the future but who knows what those jackasses at Warner will do after the colossal failure of JL at the box office.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Huh? Have you watched any MCU movie? Cap and IM have killed multiple times in their own movies and did it without hesitation.
Do they do it on the reg?
And I have to ask - what does this have to do on a no holding back bloodlusted Supes? I mean I have proven Superman CAN do what LOM suggested. Even if you think Supes wouldn't do it, at least on the onset, the fact that it's possible is the point I originally made. Again, why don't you guys focus on a counter instead of yelling "he won't do it!