Originally posted by Silent MasterBet. You claimed Superman didn't attempt to keep the casualty count down. I gave several examples of him actively saving lives. Because you believe he could have done more doesn't take away the fact he kept the count down.
If they're examples where I was actually proven wrong, absolutely.
You gave a list of him saving maybe half a dozen lives, out of around 5,000. I'm fairly sure I acknowledged your list when you mentioned it in the first place. So all you've done is prove that I'm willing to be corrected and treat information with an open mind.
So what makes Superman knocking someone into the air and example of him attempting to relocate the fight, whereas when other characters do it it's just an example of them having superhuman strength?
That's a bit intellectually dishonest when were talking specifically about lives that were put in danger due to their fight.
Superman would have saved all of those lives plus at least a portion of those 5,000 that died had he managed to move the fight to a safer location. All you're doing is proving that Superman is fine sacrificing 5,000 lives if it saves the planet.
No it isn't. As stated earlier Zod specifically told Superman that he was going to kill every single human on Earth. I have the quote for you:
"I'm going to make them suffer, Kal. These humans you've adopted, I will take them all from you one by one."
So Zod's intention was to single handedly kill off billions after the WE was destroyed. Those lives were in danger regardless. And there is no evidence Zod would have followed Kal to a less populated area but there is evidence he wouldn't have seeing as how when the fight began moving away from the city Zod actively brought it right back.
Yes and those billions would have been saved whether Superman fought in a heavily or sparsely populated area, so those lives have absolutely no bearing on my point.
The Zod/Superman fight happening in a densely populated area cost around 5000 lives, my point is that had the fight happened in a sparsely populated area less people would have died. The fact that Superman never even tried to move the fight to a less populated area is why I consider him guilty of depraved-heart murder.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Yes and those billions would have been saved whether Superman fought in a heavily or sparsely populated area, so those lives have absolutely no bearing on my point.The Zod/Superman fight happening in a densely populated area cost around 5000 lives, my point is that had the fight happened in a sparsely populated area less people would have died. The fact that Superman never even tried to move the fight to a less populated area is why I consider him guilty of depraved-heart murder.
Was the fight moving away from the city? Did Zod move it back?
Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, I'm not buying the argument that Superman knocking Zod into the air was an attempt to move the fight to a less populated area. It was just him punching Zod really hard.
Were those really hard punches moving the fight away from the city? Did Zod move back towards the city as soon as he was able to?
Originally posted by juggerman
Were those really hard punches moving the fight away from the city? Did Zod move back towards the city as soon as he was able to?
The question here is Superman's intent. You're claiming he punched Zod into the air with the intention of relocating the fight to a less populated area. So far you have provided no actual proof of this.
Originally posted by juggerman
So you agree Superman was moving the fight away from the city but you believe it was unintentional? Now, do you also agree Zod intentionally moved it back to the city or was that also a coincidence?
I agree that Zod was knocked into the air, I do not agree with your assertion that Superman's intent was to relocate in the battle to a less populated area.
So the facts remain 1) their fight cost around 5000 lives 2) Superman made no effort to relocate the battle to a less populated area. Therefore in my opinion he is guilty of depraved-heart murder.
He was knocked into the air and punched several times, each punch knocking Zod what seemed to be city blocks. If Zod had not recovered and fled back towards the city, those hits would have knocked him far and away from the densely populated city.
So we have two events, Superman punching Zod away from the city, and Zod flying back to the city. Seems like one of them was intent on keeping the fight where it was.
Zod did not flee back towards the city, they were still in the city. BTW, Can you prove those hits weren't knocking Zod towards a more densely populated part of the city?
My opinion is Superman is guilty of depraved-heart murder, Zod is guilty of full-on first-degree murder or whatever the appropriate charge would be for murdering people on that scale.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Zod did not flee back towards the city, they were still in the city. BTW, Can you prove those hits weren't knocking Zod towards a more densely populated part of the city?My opinion is Superman is guilty of depraved-heart murder, Zod is guilty of full-on first-degree murder or whatever the appropriate charge would be for murdering people on that scale.
They were above the city and Zod flew back down towards the city. Had the fight stayed up where it was it wouldn't have mattered where they ended up. Zod flew back down to where people and property would have been more affected.
I know where you stand. It is clear that you hold Superman to a different standard than other heroes(as most people seem to do).
No, I hold them all to the same standard. For example in the Avengers, Captain America's orders were specifically designed to keep civilian casualties to a minimum. That's why I don't consider them guilty of depraved-heart murder.
Now Age of Ultron, I'm not sure of the overall death count but I'm sure Ultron is responsible for quite a few deaths and Tony did create him. Now, I consider Ultron sentient so I'm not sure how much blame Tony should get for his actions. However, I wouldn't be all that upset if people considered him guilty of depraved-heart murder for his role in ultron's creation.
Originally posted by Silent Master
No, I hold them all to the same standard. For example in the Avengers, Captain America's orders were specifically designed to keep civilian casualties to a minimum. That's why I don't consider them guilty of depraved-heart murder.
Yet they still killed humans. Hulk specifically was dropping debris on people as shown in Civil War. Him and Thor both crashed levathians into buildings. Hulk didn't try to lure Abom away, Thor murdered countless Frost Giants because someone called him a name, Scarlet Witch murdered mad people in Civil War, Hawkeye and Widow being assassins kinda meet the requirements, I can't think of any for Tony but there might be some examples, and Cap I'm fairly sure is in the clear.
You never refer to these guys as murders though. If you want to call Supes a murderer ok, but at least be consistent
EDIT: Just saw your edit. Idk if Tony would be in the sense that Ultron is sentient but maybe. I know he certainly tried to murder Bucky though. So did Panther.
There is a difference between killing and murder. I'd have to re-watch to see if the Hulk actually did drop any debris on people. If so feel free to add him to the list of people guilty of depraved-heart murder.
As for Thor and the leviathans, if there's any proof that people died in those buildings I'm more than willing to reevaluate my position on him. The frost Giants however invaded Asgard which was an act of War. Hawkeye I'm fairly sure had legal Authority for his actions through Shield. But yes, Black Widow has killed people though without knowing more of her history I'm unsure if she had government sanction. So she may well also be guilty of murder.
Actually, I don't think the leviathans would count. It's not like Thor or the Hulk had any other choice. They couldn't try to lure them to a less populated area as those things moved so slow by the time they lured one away, half the city would have been destroyed by all the other chitauri and they couldn't leave them alone as those leviathans would have done far too much damage.
Thor was specifically told by his king not to go after them. He defied the order and went anyway. Then he was talked down and as they went to leave of the Giants called him a princess and he let loose. That's murder
Also Scarlet Witch? Hulk vs Abom?
Again you seem to specifically target Superman but not the others. It just seems rather biased.