[nerdery]
Honestly depends how high you 'power scale' DBS forms/powers like SSG, SSB, MSSB, GoDs, etc.
But if you take all statements made in GT at face value, this is how the power scaling looks...
*Kid Goku stated that base Rildo was "even MORE POWERFUL than Majin Boo" -- yet BASE GT Goku was able to match him.
ie. base GT Goku ~ base Rildo > Majin Boo(Goku was likely using Pure/Kid Boo as a comparison) ~ SSJ3 Z Goku.
*Rildo then stated that Goku's power had increased "A HUNDRED fold" when he transformed to SSJ1(which is double what the SSJ multiplier was in Z.)
ie. SSJ GT Goku (100x)> base GT Goku ~ base Rildo > Majin Boo ~ SSJ3 Z Goku.
*Now, even if the SSJ2 & SSJ3 multipliers were the same in GT as they were in Z(in all likelihood, they were probably much greater given the SSJ1 multiplier), it still means SSJ2 GT Goku would have been 200x> SSJ3 Z Goku, and SSJ3 GT Goku would have been 800x> SSJ3 Z Goku.
*As for SSJ4: Super Baby Vegeta(2) was able to utterly stomp SSJ3 GT Goku... After Goku transformed into SSJ4, however, he not only stomped the bejesus out of SBV2, he was also roughly on par with Golden Oozaru Baby... Who was 10x> SBV2(that's the canon Oozaru multiplier.) This means SSJ4 was no less than 10x SSJ3(that's definitely a lowball figure, mind you, but it can be incontrovertibly substantiated.) So in a nutshell, that puts n00b SSJ4 Goku at 8,000x> SSJ3 Z Goku, at the very least.
-It's also worth noting that Goku stated Super Baby Vegeta(1) had "the most awesome ki he'd EVER felt"... And given that Z is canon to GT, this serves as additional proof that Baby Vegeta(1)-level power(and above) was truly intended to be >>>>>>> anything in Z(Boohan and Vegito notwithstanding.) So yeah...
*Anywho, once we got to the Shadow Dragon saga we saw that there were FAR greater depths to Goku's SSJ4 than had been previously shown.
ie. SSJ4 'limits surpassed' Goku(see his fight with Syn Shenron) >>> n00b SSJ4 Goku ala the Baby saga.
-This is important where Vegeta is concerned, because based on their ability to use the Fusion Dance in the first place, we know that SSJ4 Vegeta ~ SSJ4 'limits surpassed' Goku(remember, the fusees must have roughly the same PL in order to fuse, and neither Goku or Vegeta were stated to have raised or lowered their powers prior to fusing.)
*Then consider that Omega Shenron(who stated he was "AT LEAST 10x stronger than his previous form - possibly even more") was able to effortlessly trounce SSJ4 Goku AND SSJ4 Vegeta simultaneously -- and again, they were both, as a lowball figure, no less than 8,000x more powerful than SSJ3 Z Goku.
*Finally, you have SSJ4 Gogeta, who utterly DESTROYED Omega Shenron in one of the most one-sided shit-stomps I've ever seen in DB.
{Note}
I'm not even counting EoGT Goku for obvious reasons. He was already AT LEAST 8,000x> SSJ3 Z Goku, per power scaling...AND had an additional 100 years of "training with Shenron" under his belt...AND had fused with the fuggin Dragon Balls. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he had ascended to the theoretical SSJ5 Bulma mentioned(or possibly even higher.) The dude's implied power is f*cking absurd.
tl;dr
If we use power scaling alone, the 'great powers' of GT were, in all likelihood, tenS of thousandS of timeS more powerful than the 'great powers' of Z... And if that is indeed the case, they should absolutely be able to contend with DBS/God-level power.
If we were to compare *feats* exclusively, however, this would be a tremendously lop-sided matchup, as DBS/God-level *feats* are beyond most *feats* from GT... But tbf, large-scale feats have never really been an accurate means of gauging powers in DB. If they were, then Roshi...with a PL of 180...would be one of the most powerful beings in the mythos, cuz moon-busting. So take that for what it's worth... /shrug
[/nerdery] 😮
*Kid Goku stated that base Rildo was "even MORE POWERFUL than Majin Boo" -- yet BASE GT Goku was able to match him.
ie. base GT Goku ~ base Rildo > Majin Boo(Goku was likely using Pure/Kid Boo as a comparison) ~ SSJ3 Z Goku.
It's not unfounded by feats, either. Goku was able to break out of a dimension in base, not unlike how Super Buu and SSJ3 Gotenks did.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTWThanks! 👆
Good post, enjoyed it 👆You're referring to this, I guess?
Only remember that one time Bulma measured him with scouter in the anime (filler or not?):
Not filler, as the Daizenshuu has Roshi at 139 as well:
I just went with the 180 that 'Weekly Jump' credits him with as a maximum figure, given that Roshi was 'bulked up' when he moon-busted.
Originally posted by carver9Awesome.
Good post Galan. Strength, speed, and durability fts are good in DB but we always based things off of power scaling. I have no take aways from your post and an argument can be made for DBGT.
Glad it's not as confusing to you guys as I thought it might be after reading through it a second time, lol.
Originally posted by NewGuy01True. 👆
It's not unfounded by feats, either. Goku was able to break out of a dimension in base, not unlike how Super Buu and SSJ3 Gotenks did.
Base GT Goku also effortlessly trounced Cell(I'm assuming he would've still been SPC) and Freeza, as though they were laughably weak fodder. What's more, Cell and Freeza had both been training extensively, and were each a good deal more powerful than they originally were.
*And for what it's worth- even at the start of BoG/DBS, base Goku was still weaker than Freeza. So yeah...
Originally posted by Galan007Fantastic post! Thanks a bunch for this. Hope you don't mind if I use it for future debates as reference. Great stuff. 😄
[nerdery]Honestly depends how high you 'power scale' DBS forms/powers like SSG, SSB, MSSB, GoDs, etc.
But if you take all statements made in GT at face value, this is how the power scaling looks...
*Kid Goku stated that base Rildo was "even MORE POWERFUL than Majin Boo" -- yet BASE GT Goku was able to match him.
ie. base GT Goku ~ base Rildo > Majin Boo(Goku was likely using Pure/Kid Boo as a comparison) ~ SSJ3 Z Goku.*Rildo then stated that Goku's power had increased "A HUNDRED fold" when he transformed to SSJ1(which is double what the SSJ multiplier was in Z.)
ie. SSJ GT Goku (100x)> base GT Goku ~ base Rildo > Majin Boo ~ SSJ3 Z Goku.*Now, even if the SSJ2 & SSJ3 multipliers were the same in GT as they were in Z(in all likelihood, they were probably much greater given the SSJ1 multiplier), it still means SSJ2 GT Goku would have been [b]200x>
SSJ3 Z Goku, and SSJ3 GT Goku would have been 800x> SSJ3 Z Goku.*As for SSJ4: Super Baby Vegeta(2) was able to utterly stomp SSJ3 GT Goku... After Goku transformed into SSJ4, however, he not only stomped the bejesus out of SBV2, he was also roughly on par with Golden Oozaru Baby... Who was 10x> SBV2(that's the canon Oozaru multiplier.) This means SSJ4 was no less than 10x SSJ3(that's definitely a lowball figure, mind you, but it can be incontrovertibly substantiated.) So in a nutshell, that puts n00b SSJ4 Goku at 8,000x> SSJ3 Z Goku, at the very least.
-It's also worth noting that Goku stated Super Baby Vegeta(1) had "the most awesome ki he'd EVER felt"... And given that Z is canon to GT, this serves as additional proof that Baby Vegeta(1)-level power(and above) was truly intended to be >>>>>>> anything in Z(Boohan and Vegito notwithstanding.) So yeah...
*Anywho, once we got to the Shadow Dragon saga we saw that there were FAR greater depths to Goku's SSJ4 than had been previously shown.
ie. SSJ4 'limits surpassed' Goku(see his fight with Syn Shenron) >>> n00b SSJ4 Goku ala the Baby saga.-This is important where Vegeta is concerned, because based on their ability to use the Fusion Dance in the first place, we know that SSJ4 Vegeta ~ SSJ4 'limits surpassed' Goku(remember, the fusees must have roughly the same PL in order to fuse, and neither Goku or Vegeta were stated to have raised or lowered their powers prior to fusing.)
*Then consider that Omega Shenron(who stated he was "AT LEAST 10x stronger than his previous form - possibly even more") was able to effortlessly trounce SSJ4 Goku AND SSJ4 Vegeta simultaneously -- and again, they were both, as a lowball figure, no less than 8,000x more powerful than SSJ3 Z Goku.
*Finally, you have SSJ4 Gogeta, who utterly DESTROYED Omega Shenron in one of the most one-sided shit-stomps I've ever seen in DB.
{Note}
I'm not even counting EoGT Goku for obvious reasons. He was already AT LEAST 8,000x> SSJ3 Z Goku, per power scaling...AND had an additional 100 years of "training with Shenron" under his belt...AND had fused with the fuggin Dragon Balls. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he had ascended to the theoretical SSJ5 Bulma mentioned(or possibly even higher.) The dude's implied power is f*cking absurd.tl;dr
If we use power scaling alone, the 'great powers' of GT were, in all likelihood, tenS of thousandS of timeS more powerful than the 'great powers' of Z... And if that is indeed the case, they should absolutely be able to contend with DBS/God-level power.If we were to compare *feats* exclusively, however, this would be a tremendously lop-sided matchup, as DBS/God-level *feats* are beyond most *feats* from GT... But tbf, large-scale feats have never really been an accurate means of gauging powers in DB. If they were, then Roshi...with a PL of 180...would be one of the most powerful beings in the mythos, cuz moon-busting. So take that for what it's worth... /shrug
[/nerdery] 😮 [/B]
I just cant get passed the 8000x figure; it's insane and hard to even grasp! especially when we've seen how guys that are just 2x their opponent can dominate them easily: just look at SS2 Gohan v.s. Perfect Cell haha.
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXXYou asked for power scaling, so I power scaled for ya. 😉
Fantastic post! Thanks a bunch for this. Hope you don't mind if I use it for future debates as reference. Great stuff. 😄I just cant get passed the 8000x figure; it's insane and hard to even grasp! especially when we've seen how guys that are just 2x their opponent can dominate them easily: just look at SS2 Gohan v.s. Perfect Cell haha.
Well, Perfect Cell > FPSSJ Gohan -- this means SSJ2 Gohan was LESS THAN 2x Perfect Cell, yet he [Cell] was still trounced with laughable ease(Gohan dropped him with 2 serious hits, iirc.) So just imagine if Gohan were able to beat Cell 8,000x easier... Because *that's* how easily a n00b SSJ4 Goku could stomp him on paper. #CrayCray
In short, I totally agree with you- it's nearly impossible to wrap your head around multipliers like this... Especially given that the 8,000x figure is actually just a very low-end/conservative starting point. Because even during the Baby arc when he was still a n00b, SSJ4 Goku was logically a good deal more powerful than that -- and his power increased dramatically by the final arc when he surpassed his limitations against the Shenron family.
Also remember: that is *just* SSJ4 Goku. SSJ4 Vegeta was just as powerful as him(his SSJ4 amp was actually FAR more impressive.) However, a being like Omega Shenron makes both of their powers look infantile by comparison... And whatever [vast] difference exists between Omega Shenron and SSJ4 Goku/Vegeta -- a MUCH larger difference exists between Omega Shenron and SSJ4 Gogeta. Utterly asinine levels of power here...
From a storytelling/plot standpoint, GT was crap most of the time. That said, it's hard to deny how phucking powerful its characters were intended to be. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007
True. 👆Base GT Goku also effortlessly trounced Cell(I'm assuming he would've still been SPC) and Freeza, as though they were laughably weak fodder. What's more, Cell and Freeza had both been training extensively, and were each a good deal more powerful than they originally were.
*And for what it's worth- even at the start of BoG/DBS, base Goku was still weaker than Freeza. So yeah...
