Net Neutrality might end.

Started by DarthSkywalker027 pages

Originally posted by BackFire
Yes netflix started without NN but there was no competition for streaming at that point, and they initially started as a mailing service. If there was already a major streaming company in existence then who knows if Netflix would have been able to succeed in that department.

Besides I think it's folly to compare the internet of 2007 to the internet of today. It was not as bandwidth-heavy and it was in less demand as a utility for every day use.

Fair point, though youtube did exist and Reddit is a better example of a website that has heavy bandwidth usage and became popular without net neutrality in 2010 through 2013.

Yeah. I guess we'll just see what happens. There's still a long ways to go before NN is officially dead. It could get overruled in the courts or something. Or congress could end up passing something that does something similar to NN which renders it all moot.

Still, I think no good can come from repealing NN without also doing away with the regional monopolies. I think repealing NN without doing that second step will only make things worse. Whether it's a little worse or a lot worse remains to be seen though.

Originally posted by BackFire
Yeah. I guess we'll just see what happens. There's still a long ways to go before NN is officially dead. It could get overruled in the courts or something. Or congress could end up passing something that does something similar to NN which renders it all moot.

Still, I think no good can come from repealing NN without also doing away with the regional monopolies. I think repealing NN without doing that second step will only make things worse. Whether it's a little worse or a lot worse remains to be seen though.

Glad we could find some agreement, lol.

Satellite will never be a viable option for symmetric channels.

It is literally limited by the laws of physics because the speed of light has a limit. We've known that Satellite internet will always have a limited capability.

What is being targeted for Satellite networks is extremely large global transfers of large amounts of data that do not require synchronous communications. This could be back-up and storage, database redundancy, and so forth. Still a viable option. But not for significant portions how the internet is actually used.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Satellite will never be a viable option for symmetric channels.

It is literally limited by the laws of physics because the speed of light has a limit. We've known that Satellite internet will always have a limited capability.

What is being targeted for Satellite networks is extremely large global transfers of large amounts of data that do not require synchronous communications. This could be back-up and storage, database redundancy, and so forth. Still a viable option. But not for significant portions how the internet is actually used.

Doesn’t change the fact that without regulation the fastest internet in the world is found in counties without nn.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Satellite will never be a viable option for symmetric channels.

It is literally limited by the laws of physics because the speed of light has a limit. We've known that Satellite internet will always have a limited capability.

What is being targeted for Satellite networks is extremely large global transfers of large amounts of data that do not require synchronous communications. This could be back-up and storage, database redundancy, and so forth. Still a viable option. But not for significant portions how the internet is actually used.

That's interesting. I've read that Elon Musk is thinking of a way to get around this by putting his satellites at a lower altitude than the other ones currently in existence. Do you think this is a viable solution?

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Doesn’t change the fact that without regulation the fastest internet in the world is found in counties without nn.

The accuracy of your statement is demonstrably provable as incorrect according to these two sites:

https://www.thisisnetneutrality.org/

https://www.fastmetrics.com/internet-connection-speed-by-country.php

Also, do you feel that making that connection is not correct? As in, internet speed and net neutrality are not apples to apples?

If you're making a case for why we need net neutrality by making this connection (which you aren't), that's a great point. Some countries on this list, without net neutrality, have highly restricted and filtered internet via the government. That does not seem like a great case for why we should avoid net neutrality, at all. Seems like speeds and access to the internet are great cases in favor of net neutrality.

The primary reason why your point is wrong is mostly to do with the EU and their new net neutrality rule, which they seem to be a frequent flier on the list of "fastest internet by country."

I would like to see the US get in on that list.

Originally posted by dadudemon
The accuracy of your statement is demonstrably provable as incorrect according to these two sites:

https://www.thisisnetneutrality.org/

https://www.fastmetrics.com/internet-connection-speed-by-country.php

Also, do you feel that making that connection is not correct? As in, internet speed and net neutrality are not apples to apples?

If you're making a case for why we need net neutrality by making this connection (which you aren't), that's a great point. Some countries on this list, without net neutrality, have highly restricted and filtered internet via the government. That does not seem like a great case for why we should avoid net neutrality, at all. Seems like speeds and access to the internet are great cases in favor of net neutrality.

The Swedes are flying high, no wonder Astner was always so smug

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20171214/09383738811/two-separate-studies-show-that-vast-majority-people-who-said-they-support-ajit-pais-plan-were-fake.shtml

"Two Separate Studies Show That The Vast Majority Of People Who Said They Support Ajit Pai's Plan... Were Fake"

Interesting. And I'm sure those "supporters" were not in some way related to big brand ISPs.

Forget where I read it, but something like 80+% of Americans are against ending NN regardless of political and social leanings. This is about as "this is what the American people want" as we can get and the government is giving us the middle-finger. Last I checked, they're supposed to be working for us; not against.

So par the course, then. All the gop proposals this year have been unpopular among the general public.

Unrelated to NN, but another thing to possibly worry about internet-wise...

http://www.newsweek.com/russian-forces-could-cause-catastrophe-west-cutting-internet-cables-749047

mmm

Originally posted by dadudemon
The accuracy of your statement is demonstrably provable as incorrect according to these two sites:

https://www.thisisnetneutrality.org/

https://www.fastmetrics.com/internet-connection-speed-by-country.php

Also, do you feel that making that connection is not correct? As in, internet speed and net neutrality are not apples to apples?

If you're making a case for why we need net neutrality by making this connection (which you aren't), that's a great point. Some countries on this list, without net neutrality, have highly restricted and filtered internet via the government. That does not seem like a great case for why we should avoid net neutrality, at all. Seems like speeds and access to the internet are great cases in favor of net neutrality.

The first site is the problem as it considers any regulation of the internet to be equitable to net neutrality. It isn't. There are very few countries which have actual net neutrality. South Korea's net neutrality is vastly different than the States. They have the exact opposite problem. ISPS are paying fees to communication companies. To quote Business Korea,

The South Korean government is sticking to the current net neutrality policy because the approach in the U.S. and South Korea DIFFERS for net neutrality rules. The U.S. government has kept the tough net neutrality policies that prohibit communication service providers from charging fees to content and platform service providers such as Google, Facebook and YouTube in order to encourage them grow.

However, the Trump administration has announced to revise the net neutrality rules as various types of charging systems are being developed and communication service providers show a remarkable stagnation in growth. It will gather the opinions of communication service providers to come up with new net neutrality policies.

However, South Korea has an approach to net neutrality rules in the perspective of business interest infringement of users, instead of service providers. It still believes that the guidelines given by the MSIT will improve user convenience and benefits through the cooperation between network service providers and users. Accordingly, the guidelines grant a net neutrality exception with rational reasons but the rationality will be regulated after.[QUOTE]
They are now having to focus on reverse discrimination. Norway was number 2 on the most recent list and they also do not the fit the United States mold of net neutrality. Norway has a co-regulatory approach rather than actual net neutrality. The EU's net neutrality is vastly different the United States's regardless. They do have rules against data discrimination, but they are not administered in the same way.

[QUOTE]During the legislative process in the Council, application-agnosticism was waived by the introduction of a provision to “equally treat equivalent types of traffic”, seemingly allowing classes of traffic on the Internet!

So certain classes like video streaming vs kmc can be given different amounts of bandwidth. What is funny about Sweden is that they have been fighting net neutrality ever since the policy was up for consideration. Regardless, the laws of net neutrality have many more loopholes then the States laws and are not enforced nearly as harshly. This applies to all European countries on the list. So I do not think it is really comparable. When I made my statement regarding countries on the top ten that was regarding the list in 2015. That was the only list I could find, so that probably prompted the confusion. Most citizens in Europe even note net neutrality is a minor issue their due to all of the competition. It was implemented due to censorship and has many loopholes regarding data descrimination.

Also, do you feel that making that connection is not correct? As in, internet speed and net neutrality are not apples to apples?

I was simply using the example of Europe to indicate that net neutrality does positively effect internet speed. The Europeans have realized this hence why they have so many loopholes in regard to data discrimination.

If you're making a case for why we need net neutrality by making this connection (which you aren't), that's a great point. Some countries on this list, without net neutrality, have highly restricted and filtered internet via the government. That does not seem like a great case for why we should avoid net neutrality, at all. Seems like speeds and access to the internet are great cases in favor of net neutrality.

As far as access goes, the Europeans have been seriously complaining about the lack of free speech. Europe has never had free speech in regards to their internet. But it was my bad for assuming that Europe's policies had stayed static as of 2015. But there is no evidence to believe, that net neutrality is responsible for the speedy internet especially given the time it takes for net neutrality to take into effect. All studies ran on the EU claim their internet speed comes from their competition. As far as free speech goes, many countries which are labeled free in terms of their internet don't have net neutrality and vice versa. So I doubt there is any real correlation there.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I disagree. I personally experienced the arbitrary throttling that was happening.

What did I do? I had to get a VPN so the ISP could not discriminate on the content I chose to consume. What was the content? Anime TV shows, Netflix, Manga, YouTube, Crackle.

Sure, "high bandwidth" content. But I consume no more than 200GB a month in content and it is usually around 80GB. I'm not a huge consumer. And yet, I was directly targeted for using the internet, moderately, with this discriminatory practices.

Do you see why my panties are in a bunch of this?

I see why, but here is the thing: this was made out like it was internet apocalypse. And once again: it's not lol. The sky isn't falling.

The shit Robtard posted is concerning, but nowhere NEAR the level of head exploded-ness we received from people over this.

It's getting out of control.

Originally posted by Surtur
I see why, but here is the thing: this was made out like it was internet apocalypse. And once again: it's not lol. The sky isn't falling.

The shit Robtard posted is concerning, but nowhere NEAR the level of head exploded-ness we received from people over this.

It's getting out of control.

Of course it's not an instant apocalypse for the internet. They could never get away with that. But it will signal the beginning of the end.

Originally posted by Surtur
I see why, but here is the thing: this was made out like it was internet apocalypse. And once again: it's not lol. The sky isn't falling.

The shit Robtard posted is concerning, but nowhere NEAR the level of head exploded-ness we received from people over this.

It's getting out of control.

Not everyone has the disposable income to buy a decent VPN service. The free ones are quite shitty.

And I should not have to purchase an encryption technology to prevent my ISP from deep packet inspection, throttling, and discriminating against internet I choose to consume because it is a direct threat to my ISP's side services (Cable).

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
The first site is the problem as it considers any regulation of the internet to be equitable to net neutrality. It isn't. There are very few countries which have actual net neutrality. South Korea's net neutrality is vastly different than the States. They have the exact opposite problem. ISPS are paying fees to communication companies. To quote Business Korea,

Again you're wrong. It does not say South Korea has net neutrality. It only mentions "protections." Check the key/legend: it shows that it is "protections", not "Net Neutrality." Hover over the country of South Korea and scroll down. It says, "Law: No." It does not have a net neutrality law. It has protections and it describes what those "other protections" are.

That site is very thorough and highly researched. While you may not like the facts presented - because it contradicts a very well formulated position (who would like it?) you held - and they are clearly a biased site in favor of net neutrality, they are fairly representing the facts.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
I was simply using the example of Europe to indicate that net neutrality does positively effect internet speed. The Europeans have realized this hence why they have so many loopholes in regard to data discrimination.

Do you have a source? Because what I provided clearly contradicts your position, here.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
As far as access goes, the Europeans have been seriously complaining about the lack of free speech. Europe has never had free speech in regards to their internet.

Why are you discussing this red herring? At best, your point about internet and free speech in these European Countries seems tangentially related to the topic of net neutrality via the concept of "internet."

I'd be more than happy to discuss this new topic if you wish but I have no comments on it other than, yup, this is a problem in some countries. I love my American Free Speech law. Epic American Freedom Fistbumps.

Originally posted by BackFire
So par the course, then. All the gop proposals this year have been unpopular among the general public.

The video I often post (and this is for Robtard, too, about his 80%+ comment) shows that the government very rarely represents Americans in the laws they make.

Wanna see it again?

YouTube video

Don't you recall how VILE the Interwebs was before Messiah Obama saved it in 2015?