US Supreme Pizza Part II: Bake a Cake

Originally posted by Scribble
Well, yeah. None of this stuff I mentioned happens in them because we have our current laws in place. If things worked the way you described, they would.

No, those things didn't happen even during Jim Crow era. Sure, some...but not many. They wanted their money. So they put them in other places.

Very few had the "No Negroes" and "No Irish" signs.

Originally posted by Scribble
I personally just wouldn't want to live in a country where humans rights violations were allowed to happen because of some misguided sense of 'freedom', a sense of freedom that ignores many other people's freedom to have basic access to the things humans need to survive.

There's the problem: they wouldn't be violations.

So you'd rather live in a country where your drinks and food get spit in or pubes get put in them because they are racist but don't advertise it? I'd rather avoid those places.

I don't. I prefer the freedom and options to vote with my money and social media. I can't do that, now. Not readily. I don't like these secret racists. Let them come out.

Originally posted by Scribble
Like, imagine being in a country with laws like you've described, but one where white people are frequently discriminated in in such a way. You live there, and you're travelling. It's a big place. You're tired, you're hungry, you just want a burger and a coffee to keep you on the road. The smartphone GPS has no info for the town you're travelling through, so you have to hope for the best. You're denied entrance to every shop, so no burger. No coffee places open to 'your kind' either. Well, better find a motel. Except all the nearby motels have the sign "No whites, no dogs" in the window. So you have to park in some run-down parking lot and sleep rough in the boot. Good thing you didn't have the kids with you.

But hey, thank god for freedom.

Oh, you mean exactly like how it is in Japan where they won't feed white "Gajins" and turn them away?

That's simply not true ^^^, federal laws had to be passed to force the entire south to accommodate black people.

And many times it wasn't even the businesses fault. They wouldn't serve black people because if they did, their other white customers would no longer come

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, those things didn't happen even during Jim Crow era. Sure, some...but not many. They wanted their money. So they put them in other places.

Very few had the "No Negroes" and "No Irish" signs.

There's the problem: they wouldn't be violations.

So you'd rather live in a country where your drinks and food get spit in or pubes get put in them because they are racist but don't advertise it? I'd rather avoid those places.

I don't. I prefer the freedom and options to vote with my money and social media. I can't do that, now. Not readily. I don't like these secret racists. Let them come out.

Oh, you mean exactly like how it is in Japan where they won't feed white "Gajins" and turn them away?

Those circumstances may be exaggerated, but they're rooted in reality. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/25/no-irish-no-coloureds-notices-were-no-myth (that's a UK source)

Why wouldn't they be violations? Because they aren't seen as such in the country? I think all of the human rights councils of the world would likely disagree.

The spitting in the burger stuff, okay, so is that pure conjecture? You say that stuff happening in the Jim Crow era is exaggerated, and then rely on pure hearsay and conjecture to prove a point? Doesn't seem like a good tactic to me.

Like I say, I get your overall point, and it'd be great if it could work that way. But if racism is seen as a totally fine thing to practice, it'll never go away, and it would only enhance cultural and social separation and create areas where racism is seen as the norm and as a totally fine thing, and not the excuse to treat people like shit for no reason that it actually is.

Originally posted by Firefly218
That's simply not true ^^^, federal laws had to be passed to force the entire south to accommodate black people.

And many times it wasn't even the businesses fault. They wouldn't serve black people because if they did, their other white customers would no longer come

So only the South had to be forced to accommodate black people?

Originally posted by Silent Master
So only the South had to be forced to accommodate black people?

Originally posted by Scribble
Yeah, just like those places in Japan. They sound bloody awful. What's your point?

Those circumstances may be exaggerated, but they're rooted in reality. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/25/no-irish-no-coloureds-notices-were-no-myth (that's a UK source)

Why wouldn't they be violations? Because they aren't seen as such in the country? I think all of the human rights councils of the world would likely disagree.

The spitting in the burger stuff, okay, so is that pure conjecture? You say that stuff happening in the Jim Crow era is exaggerated, and then rely on pure hearsay and conjecture to prove a point? Doesn't seem like a good tactic to me.

Like I say, I get your overall point, and it'd be great if it could work that way. But if racism is seen as a totally fine thing to practice, it'll never go away, and it would only enhance cultural and social separation and create areas where racism is seen as the norm and as a totally fine thing, and not the excuse to treat people like shit for no reason that it actually is.

Point is, they still get a shitload of tourists "just passing through." It's obviously no where even close to as bad as you think it is. So what? Go somewhere else. Spend your money at another place that is not shitty.

Right, I did talk about that: they existed. But they were rare. They still want money.

You're correct. Not violations. Not human rights violations. Unless you want to say the UN is cracking down on Japan?

No, not pure conjecture. Talk to any well-traveled black man. Probably any will do. They will have at least one story to share with you. Out of the millions of encounters, there's at least one racist story to share. It's too bad that you dismiss real discrimination, though. It sucks that you prefer silent abuses over making known who is racist.

If what you said was correct, then racism would have gone away. Here's the problem: humans are naturally racist. This has been studied long enough that it's fairly obvious we're just doomed to always be racist. It has to be trained out of us. Unless we modify the tribalism out of our genes.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Reconstruction era policies were specifically geared towards the states which seceded from the union, all of which were in the south.

So that's a yes?

Originally posted by Silent Master
So that's a yes?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Point is, they still get a shitload of tourists "just passing through." It's obviously no where even close to as bad as you think it is. So what? Go somewhere else. Spend your money at another place that is not shitty.

Right, I did talk about that: they existed. But they were rare. They still want money.

You're correct. Not violations. Not human rights violations. Unless you want to say the UN is cracking down on Japan?

No, not pure conjecture. Talk to any well-traveled black man. Probably any will do. They will have at least one story to share with you. Out of the millions of encounters, there's at least one racist story to share. It's too bad that you dismiss real discrimination, though. It sucks that you prefer silent abuses over making known who is racist.

If what you said was correct, then racism would have gone away. Here's the problem: humans are naturally racist. This has been studied long enough that it's fairly obvious we're just doomed to always be racist. It has to be trained out of us. Unless we modify the tribalism out of our genes.

Originally posted by Firefly218
I'm not gonna hold your hand, bye

You're running away because you know that the South isn't the only part of the country that needed to be forced to accept black people, you're just not man enough to admit it.

Keep being a bigot.

Originally posted by Firefly218
That's simply not true ^^^, federal laws had to be passed to force the entire south to accommodate black people.

And many times it wasn't even the businesses fault. They wouldn't serve black people because if they did, their other white customers would no longer come

What's not true, the fact that "No Negroes" and "No Irish" signs were very rare even during the racist of racism times? Because what I said is true. Are you familiar with Jim Crow laws? No, I am not being condescending. Many cofuse what they were.

And look at how forcing desegregation has worked out for us! Schools seem more segregated than ever, right?

Originally posted by Silent Master
So that's a yes?

Originally posted by Firefly218
I'm not gonna hold your hand, bye

haermm

Well, if you did hold his hand and wanted it on a cake, I know at least cake baker who would turn you away. 😄

Originally posted by dadudemon
haermm

Well, if you did hold his hand and wanted it on a cake, I know at least cake baker who would turn you away. 😄

He is a massive bigot and didn't like that I was pointing it out.

Yeah as if letting people who do commissioned expressive works choose not to perform acts of artistic expression they do not agree with is going to return us to the time of Jim Crow and make black people starve to death.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah as if letting people who do commissioned expressive works choose not to perform acts of artistic expression they do not agree with is going to return us to the time of Jim Crow and make black people starve to death.

I agree with dadoodoo, racists are bad. So let's give their views legal rights and protections. 🙁

Originally posted by dadudemon

And look at how forcing desegregation has worked out for us! Schools seem more segregated than ever, right?

On the topic of cakes and other baked goodies, I'm inclined to support the idea of refusing a service based on an opposition to the message. For example if an alt-brony wanted me to make them a swastika cake, or a member of the Westboro bapist church a "god hates f*gs cake", I'd like to be allowed tell them to f*ck off.

On the other hand that's because those messages encourage discriminatory and hateful practices, not because they support extending the institution of marriage to gay people. I feel as if somewhere we need to draw a line around what is acceptable and not acceptable to refuse.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I agree with dadoodoo, racists are bad. So let's give their views legal rights and protections. 🙁

You don't agree with me. I don't want that. That's a strawman.

They already have the right to be racist. 🙂

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Whether Jim Crow laws would come back isn't relevant. The principle remains the same. If it was ok to prevent businesses from discriminating against black people, why isn't it ok to stop them from discriminating against gays?

You're right. I want businesses to be able to do both. And more!

I want businesses to be able to be as racist and as atrocious as possible in their view/who they serve.

It would be great if no one could dictate their beliefs on other people, right? Go ahead, spin this around somehow. But it just doens't work.