Kylo Ren vs. Count Dooku

Started by StiltmanFTW12 pages

If they were anything like Palpatine's guards from EU, then no wonder they were so formidable.

That's a big assumption and Disney doesn't care about Legends much. Nice that they used Thrawn in Rebels, at least.

The point is Yoda handwaved them away. Skill level wouldn't change that at all. An obvious point the clown will ignore or counter with something else that is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Placidity
Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards.
Kenobi struggled with Jango just a bounty hunter. Kenobi beat Vader pre suit.

🙂

Originally posted by Placidity
The point is Yoda handwaved them away. Skill level wouldn't change that at all. An obvious point the clown will ignore or counter with something else that is irrelevant.
They had Yoda dead to rights and didn't attack. Skill level definitely would change that as well as their skill, weaponry, greater numbers, different people all tear down your all guards are equal nonsense. Dumb.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Snoke would have defeated her on his own. Palpatine needed Dooku and Grievous.

Not if you're super skilled with one over the other. A gun can't protect you very well in close quarters to a guy with a laser sword.

Talzin would molest Snoke.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yep he was completely surrounded and without his Lightsaber at hand.
Exactly, that's not as bad as almost meeting you're death by some highly trained guards with melee weapons.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Talzin would molest Snoke.

Exactly, that's not as bad as almost meeting you're death by some highly trained guards with melee weapons.

Untrue. We do know Sidious wasn't able to defeat her on his own. Undeniable.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They had Yoda dead to rights and didn't attack. Skill level definitely would change that as well as their skill, weaponry, greater numbers, different people all tear down your all guards are equal nonsense. Dumb.

What did I tell you? You would counter with irrelevant points.

Skill doesn't counter force TK.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards.

Originally posted by Placidity
What did I tell you? You would counter with irrelevant points.

Skill doesn't counter force TK.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards.

Ask Kenobi why he couldn't beat Jango then.

Ben beat Luke the same guy who crushed Vader.

🙂

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ask Kenobi why he couldn't beat Jango then.

🙂

Jango > Guard.

But good that you admit Kylo is at best comparable to Ep II Kenobi.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards.

Originally posted by Placidity
Jango > Guard.

But good that you admit Kylo is at best comparable to Ep II Kenobi.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards.

Your point was skill > force user and I'm just disproved your logic. Now it's changing again. You move the goalposts because you're a dunce.

Ben beat Luke who crushed Vader. Poor Ot guys.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Your point was skill > force user

No I said the opposite, did you pass grade 3 math?

But good that you admit Kylo is at best comparable to Ep II Kenobi.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards.

Originally posted by Placidity
No I said the opposite, did you pass grade 3 math?

But good that you admit Kylo is at best comparable to Ep II Kenobi.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards.

Skill can take on force powers. Jango wasn't armed the entire time with his gun. Kenobi still needed to focus on fighting and doesn't have time to defeat let alone easily dominate via his force powers.

Kylo beats any Kenobi.

Originally posted by Placidity
Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards.

In all fairness, Kylo was severely injured during his fight with Rey, an "untrained initiate" with immense raw power who could have beaten trained jedi masters for all we know. And there are many examples of non force users giving force users a tough fight, such as Pre Vizla, magnaguards, etc.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Skill can take on force powers.

Hahaha. Let me screenshot that one, so I can bring it out when I create a Kylo/Snoke vs Skilled Non-force user character thread.

And so we're clear, we're talking about Clown-Guard level skill, not even someone like Captain America.

Good laugh though, thanks.

Originally posted by Rebel95
In all fairness, Kylo was severely injured during his fight with Rey, an "untrained initiate" with immense raw power who could have beaten trained jedi masters for all we know. And there are many examples of non force users giving force users a tough fight, such as Pre Vizla, magnaguards, etc.

*Potential* raw power in the force, not saber combat. While the force can enhance saber skills, said skills are mastered through training.

Kylo had that excuse in his first film, he failed to demonstrate anything better in the new movie. All we see is him struggle with the guards, so that point doesn't stand at all.

Your examples are low-showings, which are countered by average/high-level showings, of which there are plenty more. Kylo has no such feats - consistently weak.

Also, no one in the upper echelon has had problems with non-force users in direct combat. This forum's dear Quan Clown believes Snoke/Kylo are in that group. We see Yoda casually TK the Emperor's guards, and Sidious toy with Maul and Savage.

Dooku 10/10 against 2-3 Kylos

Originally posted by Placidity
Jango > Guard.

But good that you admit Kylo is at best comparable to Ep II Kenobi.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards.

Jango used more technology than pure skill when he fought Kenobi. And besides Kenobi was half assing it anyways as he mission was to bring him in alive.

Originally posted by Placidity
The point is Yoda handwaved them away. Skill level wouldn't change that at all. An obvious point the clown will ignore or counter with something else that is irrelevant.

Not the same Guard (despite the same suit) and some of them were force-sensitive.

Still, we don't know much about Snoke's guards other than they were inspired by Palpatine's, their training and abilities were likely different.

Dooku. This isn't even a contest

Originally posted by Placidity
Hahaha. Let me screenshot that one, so I can bring it out when I create a Kylo/Snoke vs Skilled Non-force user character thread.

And so we're clear, we're talking about Clown-Guard level skill, not even someone like Captain America.

Good laugh though, thanks.

It can as Khan would defeat Kylo. I've already argued this countless times. Just a random nonsensical point about force equals auto win ignores countless Star Wars examples of skilled opponents such as Jango Fett and Cad Bane taking on force users such as Obi Wan Kenobi who defeated Darth Vader.

You haven't proven they are clown level. You just keep saying that and thinking you proved something. You're a moron. Grade a retard.

Proof is Kylo and Rey having to team up to take them out. How did both fare against Luke in the film ?

Pull your head out of your ass.