Originally posted by FrothByte
If we were to use your logic, we could therefore say that Ozy is pretty weak since he was unable to snap the neck of a man lying nearly prone even with a full strength kick to the head.. Heck, he wasn't even able to KO him. Most adult men with decent martial arts training could at least cripple someone with a kick like that if not outright kill them.So using your logic, we know that Ozy is actually weaker than a decent martial artist in the real world, and is way too weak to hurt BP.
I see H1 never addressed this.
Originally posted by FrothByte
They were at about the level of high-end fighters like Black Widow or Daredevil. And we saw how easily WS took out BW. He took out BW far easier than Ozy took out Comedian.And in the end, Comedian, Night Owl and Rosch are just that: high end humans. They are not enhanced like Cap or Bucky - both of whom were people TChalla fought against. He even got the upper hand against Bucky. And that's the point I was trying to make: Ozy has never been tested against an opponent of superhuman stats who was near his equal. It's easy to look good when you're so much more physically superior to your opponent.
I'm not necessarily saying Ozy, wins, I just think he has come up against people who are technically superhuman. Since DD and BW do things normal folk can't, and you acknowledged he beat people on their level.
Originally posted by Surtur
I'm not necessarily saying Ozy, wins, I just think he has come up against people who are technically superhuman. Since DD and BW do things normal folk can't, and you acknowledged he beat people on their level.
It Doesn't really matter what label we give them, whether superhuman or high end human or whatever. Point is that they're quite some ways below the physical stats of guys like Cap, Ozy and TChalla.
If we were to consider that Rosch and NightOwl are of similar stats to BW then just remember that Bucky dealt with BW far more easily than Ozy did any of his teammates.
Bottom line is, Tchalla actually went up against opponents of similar physical stats to himself whereas Ozy only beat up opponents inferior to himself.
Originally posted by h1a8
No it's not. The question doesn't disprove that Ozy used superhuman hand speed and perceptions to achieve the feat (which is the entire argument)
Yes it is and the fact that you refuse to answer proves that you know that it's relevant to the debate and that the answer would hurt your overall argument that Ozy wins.
All that Ozy supporters have is the the bullet catch thing , that others have already pointed out was a calculated feat that he had time to anticipate. Ozy's reaction times are impressive, but so are the super soldiers.
Bucky (a peer) to BP, has blocked bullets with his arm and also flipped out the way of gun fire from bullets that traveled much faster than the one that Ozy caught.
Also after said bullet feats Bucky wasnt floored for a minute like Ozy was.
Ozy beat up on the other watchmen whos greatest feat in the movies was beating up prisoners. Super soldiers in the films have fought the likes of IronMan, Ultron, Ultron bots, Chitairi, Top shield agents , other avengers, etc.
And its still funny that their are dozens and dozens of feats from people like Cap, WS, and BP and only 1 feat that is mentioned from OZY from the people giving him the win against the super soldiers tier guys. 😬
Originally posted by InhumanBucky's was more aim blocking/dodging like Ozy did in that elevator scene. Ozy flat out moved [i]after[i/] the bullet was shot from a neutral position with his arms at his sides. That at least means he moved as fast as that bullet, and he had to see the trajectory to actually pull that off. That gives him a comfortable speed edge. Silk Spectre took him by surprise after he already won the fight and was retreating. He turned around with a pretty clear look of surprise, she said a line, and shot him. There's was nothing to suggest he calculated anything. People are just trying to find ways to downplay his feat, and it's a damn good feat IMO
All that Ozy supporters have is the the bullet catch thing , that others have already pointed out was a calculated feat that he had time to anticipate. Ozy's reaction times are impressive, but so are the super soldiers.
Bucky (a peer) to BP, has blocked bullets with his arm and also flipped out the way of gun fire from bullets that traveled much faster than the one that Ozy caught.
Also after said bullet feats Bucky wasnt floored for a minute like Ozy was.Ozy beat up on the other watchmen whos greatest feat in the movies was beating up prisoners. Super soldiers in the films have fought the likes of IronMan, Ultron, Ultron bots, Chitairi, Top shield agents , other avengers, etc.
And its still funny that their are dozens and dozens of feats from people like Cap, WS, and BP and only 1 feat that is mentioned from OZY from the people giving him the win against the super soldiers tier guys. 😬
Originally posted by Inhuman
It was a good feat, but Bucky flipping out the way of automatic rifle gun fire was too.
The point is that the speed difference wont automatically give one a win over the other. That's when the other factors come in like strength, durability, stamina, etc.
And that is where Ozy is outclassed.
Bucky flipping out of the way is just aim dodging. He didn't dodge a bullet headed towards him after it entered the air. The speed difference is huge here. Ozy is significantly more skilled than Bucky and probably stronger.
Originally posted by FrothByteIf Cap is a class 3 then how can anyone superhuman be far away from him? BW is fairly weak. She's just a woman with the strength of a man.
It Doesn't really matter what label we give them, whether superhuman or high end human or whatever. Point is that they're quite some ways below the physical stats of guys like Cap, Ozy and TChalla.If we were to consider that Rosch and NightOwl are of similar stats to BW then just remember that Bucky dealt with BW far more easily than Ozy did any of his teammates.
Bottom line is, Tchalla actually went up against opponents of similar physical stats to himself whereas Ozy only beat up opponents inferior to himself.
Bucky vs. BW is irrelevant since they did not have a standard fight (which correctly gauges the relation of the two).
Nite Owl = Bucky in physicality (if not greater). Nite Owl can fight much better too.
Originally posted by FrothByteNo he doesn't. Buck's strength was human level at the time. Otherwise, Tony's face should have been broken and Tony should have been knocked far away.
Which means, using your logic, that Tony also has superhuman durability.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Yes it is and the fact that you refuse to answer proves that you know that it's relevant to the debate and that the answer would hurt your overall argument that Ozy wins.
You know that Ozy had to used superhuman speed and perceptions to achieve the feat. Anything other than that is trolling the thread.
If you disagree that Ozy used superhuman speed and perceptions then say so.
Originally posted by h1a8
If Cap is a class 3 then how can anyone superhuman be far away from him? BW is fairly weak. She's just a woman with the strength of a man.Bucky vs. BW is irrelevant since they did not have a standard fight (which correctly gauges the relation of the two).
Nite Owl = Bucky in physicality (if not greater). Nite Owl can fight much better too.
No he doesn't. Buck's strength was human level at the time. Otherwise, Tony's face should have been broken and Tony should have been knocked far away.
What a load of BS. Nite Owl = Bucky? Sure. Remind me again when Nite Owl has been able to break concrete with a punch?
Anyway, you're obviously trolling. It's a waste of time to continue replying to you.
Originally posted by h1a8
You know that Ozy had to used superhuman speed and perceptions to achieve the feat. Anything other than that is trolling the thread.
If you disagree that Ozy used superhuman speed and perceptions then say so.
Did having time to prepare and knowing the trajectory of the shot help?
When it's T'Challa and Bucky being discussed:
Originally posted by h1a8
Hitting someone across the room is the red herring since the argument is about damage, not how far someone is hit. If the metal arm would have sent TChalla flying across the room but still no damage then your argument would remain the same (no damage to prove durability).
When it is Ozy and the Watchmen being discussed:
Originally posted by h1a8
Or that those humans have superhuman durability since the distance they traveled proves the level of force operated on them.