Originally posted by Zenwolf
Wouldn't it just be the best Illusion feat? Cause The Force isn't one thing, but an application of different things. Just cause someone has good abilities with illusion doesn't mean everything else would be the same as that.
You're right there are different applications of the Force, and he might be rusty in Sabers (not that Snoke has any Saber feats himself), but the Force Astro Projection indicates his vast power. And even if he is rusty, we know he can fight from ROTJ.
So more than enough to put him above the likes of Snoke, whose best feat is TKing a captured Padawan.
Originally posted by The Merchant
Snoke believes that only Kylo with his potential realized can defeat Luke and tried hard to prevent the Resistance bringing him to their side. That there shows Luke>Snoke though an argument can be made that Snoke is referring pre tfa Luke.
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The Last Jedi Visual Dictionary explicitly states this: Snoke believes only someone with the power of the Skywalker bloodline can kill Luke.
It also explains why Snoke was so worried about Luke in TFA and why his response to discovering Luke's location is to take his fleet and bomb Ach-To from orbit.
Snoke's unquestionably mighty in terms of skill and esoteric ability, but in terms of "raw power" and combat prowess, the only evidence we have available indicates he's lagging behind somebody like Luke.
Originally posted by Darth ThorHer raw strength scared Luke and her power was equal to Kylo's. We see when they both wanted the lightsaber. It was a stalemate. Snoke was beyond her. We also saw Ben wake up after a dream and take care of Luke.
You're right there are different applications of the Force, and he might be rusty in Sabers (not that Snoke has any Saber feats himself), but the Force Astro Projection indicates his vast power. And even if he is rusty, we know he can fight from ROTJ.So more than enough to put him above the likes of Snoke, whose best feat is TKing a captured Padawan.
The responses are only becoming more bereft of objectivity. Why wouldn't Snoke bomb Luke into oblivion. Hell, your own point is pretty much the same thing we see from Palpatine in executing Order 66. Palpatine wasn't running around challenging Jedi to duels. What's worse is Palpatine tried fleeing from Yoda as soon as he recovered from the fl and defended himself. Just stop the nonsense.
Snoke >>>Rey or Ben. Luke was defeated by one and looked bad against the other. Facts matter.
Originally posted by relentless1Nah, cutting himself off from the force for years decreases his abilities. We also see an inexperienced Ben beat him after waking up to him standing over top of him like a creeper. Facts matter not your silly imagination and excuses.
lol Luke would anal rape Snoke. No Lube
Snoke is the most powerful force user ever seen on film.
Originally posted by quanchi112
The responses are only becoming more bereft of objectivity. Why wouldn't Snoke bomb Luke into oblivion. Hell, your own point is pretty much the same thing we see from Palpatine in executing Order 66. Palpatine wasn't running around challenging Jedi to duels. What's worse is Palpatine tried fleeing from Yoda as soon as he recovered from the fl and defended himself. Just stop the nonsense.
If Lord Tempest's quote can be verified, it seems to make it clear that Snoke didn't think he himself was more powerful than Luke, sooo...
Snoke >>>Rey or Ben. Luke was defeated by one and looked bad against the other. Facts matter.
You've already acknowledged that Luke's weakness in that scene was emotional and not physical (duh), and you don't hesitate to invoke context in other circumstances (.i.e. saying Luke did his projection feat on a nexus), so I don't see how you can just turn around and say that.
If you're going to ignore context for Luke, then that works both ways and you have to admit that he has the single best feat in the films.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He also believed Skywalker's power would rise to combat the growing power in the dark side in Kylo. He admitted he was wrong and applauded Luke's suicidal nature. He was going to give him his wish.
A completely unrelated prediction. Unless if you think Snoke vastly overestimated Luke's power or something, the only case you have here is if Luke in TLJ is significantly weaker than Luke in his prime, even after he re-entered the Force (which is very possible and why this is still a discussion).
Originally posted by Darth ThorPalpatine's intentions weren't to face any of them. He did what he had to when he had to as would Snoke. Palpatine didn't want to see Yoda enter his chamber. He hoped he'd have been dead because the order went out to take them all out. He even says how powerful the Jedi were.
He faced Maul/Opress on his own. He also faced Talzin alone on her home turf.There were too many Jedi for him to go solo, and only an idiot would purposefully face Yoda alone.
Point is any politically powerful leader doesn't run around challenging powerful foes unless they are hell bent on combat to prove themselves.
He sent Vader to the Jedi temple that doesn't mean he couldn't have done it himself but it's a pointless risk. The same applies to Snoke but the double standards are starting to become nauseating.
Originally posted by The EllimistHe did. He isn't all knowing no one is. He wasn't aware Luke was suicidal or that he caught himself off from the force for years. He wanted the last Jedi killed right after he had Rey killed. He wanted all true Jedi killed just as Palpatine did because they can spread and are a threat.
A completely unrelated prediction. Unless if you think Snoke vastly overestimated Luke's [b]power or something, the only case you have here is if Luke in TLJ is significantly weaker than Luke in his prime, even after he re-entered the Force (which is very possible and why this is still a discussion). [/B]
Originally posted by quanchi112
He did. He isn't all knowing no one is. He wasn't aware Luke was suicidal or that he caught himself off from the force for years. He wanted the last Jedi killed right after he had Rey killed. He wanted all true Jedi killed just as Palpatine did because they can spread and are a threat.
Yeah, but we're not talking about emo Luke here, we're talking about a Luke who wants to fight. You could say he suffers from rust or old age but you can't carry over his psychological baggage to the discussion.
Originally posted by The EllimistLuke usually doesn't want to fight. That's who he is. He tossed his saber down to Vader after he beat him.
Yeah, but we're not talking about emo Luke here, we're talking about a Luke who wants to fight. You could say he suffers from rust or old age but you can't carry over his psychological baggage to the discussion.
Yes, we can since this is the Luke we have to gauge. Logically Luke is powerful with the force but cutting himself off is a fact. We can't separate facts and theorize on Luke.
I personally rate the force users in terms of power Snoke is at the top with Luke at number two. Who knows what he'd be capable of had he not cut himself off and continued to progress. We can only speculate but I debate based off the facts provided.
"Luke usually doesn't want to fight" - oh, please. Luke tosses his lightsaber away after he had beaten Vader, who by the way is his father with good still in him while Snoke isn't and doesn't. He didn't know of the Emperor's abilities and thought Vader would turn (correctly). He is not some sort of pacifist who will just sit there and let Snoke kill him.
"I debate based off the facts provided" - dude, you were just provided a "fact" that says Luke > Snoke and are countering it with pseudo-psychoanalysis.