Originally posted by quanchi112
We see guys hit him who do not have superspeed aka Batman, WW, Cyborg, etc.Based off what ? We see plenty of examples and you ignore them by saying that doesn't harm him. The laser harmed him, the headbutt harmed him, the knite harmed him, the lasso affected him.
Superman can move faster but he has never sustained that speed to ever beat someone even weaker than himself in under a second. That means you're just making the fight up in your head and cherry picking a small portion of one fight scene as your entire argument.
We see guys hit him who do not have superspeed aka Batman, WW, Cyborg, etc.
Batman had kryptonite.
WW slightly annoyed him with a headbutt.
Cyborg's attack did literally nothing to him.
lmfao give it up, without kryptonite there are two possibilities:
1. Thor can't hurt Superman - then it doesn't matter what Clark does.
2. Thor can hurt Superman - then Clark isn't going to let him.
Case in point for #2 - he doesn't let Diana do her bracelet thing and speedblitzes her instead. He doesn't bother to dodge her headbutt because it was f*cking useless, lmao.
Based off what ? We see plenty of examples and you ignore them by saying that doesn't harm him. The laser harmed him, the headbutt harmed him, the knite harmed him, the lasso affected him.
The only one that was against Justice League Superman is the lasso, which is literally a magical device designed to compel someone to honesty. Even then, WW was putting all of her weight into it and as soon as Clark overcame the TP, he just threw her away. Thor doesn't have the lasso of truth, so that's irrelevant.
Superman can move faster but he has never sustained that speed to ever beat someone even weaker than himself in under a second. That means you're just making the fight up in your head and cherry picking a small portion of one fight scene as your entire argument.
Steppenwolf has better durability feats than Thor, so it doesn't matter that Supes didn't put him down right away. Likewise, he does KO the other JL members, and takes out Zod and the other Kryptonians.
Bursts of super speed >>> no super-speed at all. Tell me, how is Thor ever going to do anything on Supes? What does he even have on him?
Originally posted by The EllimistThat isn't the point. The point is his speed and reactions were fast enough to hit Superman with the knite. Your point he's a statue falls apart since in the duress of conflict a human being has successfully tagged Superman multiple times with knite with his mother's fate on the line.
Batman had kryptonite.
WW slightly annoyed him with a headbutt.
Cyborg's attack did literally nothing to him.lmfao give it up, without kryptonite there are two possibilities:
1. Thor can't hurt Superman - then it doesn't matter what Clark does.
2. Thor can hurt Superman - then Clark isn't going to let him.
Case in point for #2 - he doesn't let Diana do her bracelet thing and speedblitzes her instead. He doesn't bother to dodge her headbutt because it was f*cking useless, lmao.
1. Thor is a lot more powerful than knite. He doesn't need it but quit focusing on the knite focus on the speed of the attacks that struck superman with the knite. Pay attention to what my points actually are not what you mistakenly believe they are.
Superman was clearly affected by a laser from a Knian ship. Thor's feats of power are greater than a Knian laser.
2. He didn't let Batman but wasn't quick enough to stop him. Her recovered from the knite and Superman still couldn't stop the second knite strike.
Point is the lasso isn't a super quick attack but it successfully landed on him. I'm not arguing Thor lassos Superman I'm arguing if she can do something like that a quicker attack like lightning or a hammer toss will land.
The only one that was against Justice League Superman is the lasso, which is literally a magical device designed to compel someone to honesty. Even then, WW was putting all of her weight into it and as soon as Clark overcame the TP, he just threw her away. Thor doesn't have the lasso of truth, so that's irrelevant.Steppenwolf has better durability feats than Thor, so it doesn't matter that Supes didn't put him down right away. Likewise, he does KO the other JL members, and takes out Zod and the other Kryptonians.
Bursts of super speed >>> no super-speed at all. Tell me, how is Thor ever going to do anything on Supes? What does he even have on him? [/B]
I disagree. Hulk beat the hell out of Thor with uninterrupted strikes to his face but recovered on his own.
Zod has the same abilities and had his neck broken. He was a rather weak villain IMO.
Better skill, better gear, and more power.
Originally posted by quanchi112
That isn't the point. The point is his speed and reactions were fast enough to hit Superman with the knite. Your point he's a statue falls apart since in the duress of conflict a human being has successfully tagged Superman multiple times with knite with his mother's fate on the line.
Being in proximity to kryptonite weakens him. Try again.
1. Thor is a lot more powerful than knite. He doesn't need it but quit focusing on the knite focus on the speed of the attacks that struck superman with the knite. Pay attention to what my points actually are not what you mistakenly believe they are.
Irrelevant because Superman wouldn't try to dodge a knife he thinks will have no effect on him. When he thinks an attack will have an effect on him, he dodges them (see: when Wonder Woman tried doing her bracelet thing).
So either Thor's attacks don't affect him and it doesn't matter, or they do and Superman realizes this and starts dodging them. Thor's only chance is to win in one hit, which he couldn't even do against Iron Man, let alone Supes.
Superman was clearly affected by a laser from a Knian ship. Thor's feats of power are greater than a Knian laser.
You mean in MoS? He was just discovering his powers. This is JL Superman. Try again.
(Also it's easier to dodge Thor than a laser, ofc)
Wait, didn't Thor get knocked around and matched in a tug of war by Iron Man? And didn't Iron Man struggle against Captain America in hand to hand combat? LOLOLOL
Point is the lasso isn't a super quick attack but it successfully landed on him. I'm not arguing Thor lassos Superman I'm arguing if she can do something like that a quicker attack like lightning or a hammer toss will land.
Superman was fighting others at the same time. Superman isn't distracted vs. Thor.
Notice when he fights Steppenwolf one vs. one, he just effortlessly dodges every strike he throws at him.
Meanwhile, Thor gets tagged all the time by slower opponents, like Iron Man who Bucky and Steve were beating up h2h.
Try again.
I disagree. Hulk beat the hell out of Thor with uninterrupted strikes to his face but recovered on his own.
So? Superman tanked a f*cking nuke while Thor was going to die from a terminal velocity fall in a container (in Avengers).
Do you seriously think that glass chamber would've killed Superman? Lmfao.
Zod has the same abilities and had his neck broken. He was a rather weak villain IMO.
Circular logic. He had his neck broken by Superman, and by the way they were fighting at near-hypersonic speeds while Thor wrestles with Loki on top of a building and gets stabbed.
Better skill,
Irrelevant when he looks like a statue or Superman just grabs his wrists and then headbutts him like he did to WW.
better gear,
So what? Supes tanked a nuke, what is Thor going to do to him?
and more power.
Lmao ok. Superman was casually lifting office buildings while Thor can't overpower Loki, who could barely beat Captain America one on one.
Originally posted by The EllimistNah, you're lying. Superman wasn't hurt until the knite strikes him. He was also hit again after he regained his strength and Batman was unable to hurt him. Superman wasn't fast enough to prevent Batman from nailing him with it.
Being in proximity to kryptonite weakens him. Try again.
He was hit by a Knian laser and dazed in Man of Steel. You are one of the most biased posters i have ever witnessed. You ignore shit, make up shit you can't prove, and ignore the morality of the character to reach your biased conclusions.
Irrelevant because Superman wouldn't try to dodge a knife he thinks will have no effect on him. When he thinks an attack will have an effect on him, he dodges them (see: when Wonder Woman tried doing her bracelet thing).
[/B]
He was headbutted by WW in the same ****ing scene. Oh the sheer and utter hypocrisy.
More scripting. WW can hurt him, hell a tower ko'd him from the muscle strain so stop with the nonsense. He amped Iron Man and hit him multiple times. By your same logic Superman attacked attack multiple times and was unable to best him.
So either Thor's attacks don't affect him and it doesn't matter, or they do and Superman realizes this and starts dodging them. Thor's only chance is to win in one hit, which he couldn't even do against Iron Man, let alone Supes.[/B]
I give examples you ignore them. You also say Superman just came back to life and want to ignore when he's attacked there. You're too biased to have a discussion with. You debate based off baseless claims.
You mean in MoS? He was just discovering his powers. This is JL Superman. Try again.[/B][
He had his speed and knew how to dodge. You act like he's a retard and can't evade attacks in Man of Steel. He isn't smart enough to use his speed to dodge since reasons.
Forget the other times he saved lives and used his speed because Ellimist wants to ignore another example and focus on just the small amount of time he speed blitzed. Everything else doesn't count, lol.
(Also it's easier to dodge Thor than a laser, ofc)Wait, didn't Thor get knocked around and matched in a tug of war by Iron Man? And didn't Iron Man struggle against Captain America in hand to hand combat?
[/B]
So was Steppenwolf.
Superman was fighting others at the same time. Superman isn't distracted vs. Thor.Notice when he fights Steppenwolf one vs. one, he just effortlessly dodges every strike he throws at him.
Meanwhile, Thor gets tagged all the time by slower opponents, like Iron Man who Bucky and Steve were beating up h2h.[/B]
Just because he dodges a few attacks doesn't prove he can dodge everything.
We see a human is fast enough to tag him and he didn't get a lot of time against Steppenwolf.
Speculation.So? Superman tanked a f*cking nuke while Thor was going to die from a terminal velocity fall in a container (in Avengers).
Do you seriously think that glass chamber would've killed Superman? Lmfao.
Circular logic. He had his neck broken by Superman, and by the way they were fighting at near-hypersonic speeds while Thor wrestles with Loki on top of a building and gets stabbed.
Irrelevant when he looks like a statue or Superman just grabs his wrists and then headbutts him like he did to WW.
So what? Supes tanked a nuke, what is Thor going to do to him?
Lmao ok. Superman was casually lifting office buildings while Thor can't overpower Loki, who could barely beat Captain America one on one. [/B]
He didn't die so it's a worthless example. Superman also recovered due to the sun.
So ? Thor takes it easy on Loki. Doomsday killed him while he had help. I guess this is the same to you.
He doesn't need to use a nuke on him. Horrible argument. Thor can ko him. If a sledgehammer ko'd someone that doesn't mean a piece of glass can't hurt them since the sledgehammer ko'd them.
Hulk can casually stop Leviathan's while Superman was ko'd by a tower. It's fun to just humiliate you with your own logic.
Wait a minute – why are we trying to establish times Superman wasn’t invincible and ignoring all of Thor’s failures?
Superman sometimes uses flash level speed, and sometimes is merely really fast. Thor NEVER fights at that speed, he barely fights faster than a well trained human.
What about that fight where Thor was tagged multiple times by Iron Man, who in turn was tagged by Steve and Bucky?
Even before Justice League, Superman consistently fights by crashing people into buildings at hypersonic speeds, charging at Doomsday so fast he almost looks like a blur, etc.
Thor, meanwhile…looks identical to a stuntman who happens to be super strong.
So how does Thor even hit Superman again? Steppenwolf couldn’t, and Steppenwolf was beating around Diana who is a bullet timer.
Heck, where is the proof for your claim that Thor is more “skilled” than Superman? Superman seems to employ his powers much more effectively – he takes advantage of his flight both to maneuver and get momentum for his attacks, uses his environment (e.g. MoS), employs battlefield removal (e.g. BvS), etc. Thor’s only advantage is his alleged edge in hand to hand combat…which is irrelevant because he will look like a statue to Superman, who doesn’t stick around and box anyway.
Through this entire debate you’ve consistently mentioned flaws in Superman’s body of work while refusing to explain how Thor is actually better.
Nah, you're lying. Superman wasn't hurt until the knite strikes him. He was also hit again after he regained his strength and Batman was unable to hurt him. Superman wasn't fast enough to prevent Batman from nailing him with it.
Lmao Superman gets weakened when he's near kryptonite, do you know like anything about the character?
Or rather, if we want to speculate to whether this version of Superman is uniquely different, why look at ambiguous feats given unknown kryptonite rules when you can look at Superman not near kryptonite? Oh, right – because you cherry pick feats based on their convenience, not their veracity.
It’s a basic tenant of good research to control for confounding variables, this one being kryptonite, but you don’t have any competence with actually analyzing things properly.
He was hit by a Knian laser and dazed in Man of Steel. You are one of the most biased posters i have ever witnessed. You ignore shit, make up shit you can't prove, and ignore the morality of the character to reach your biased conclusions.
This is one of the funniest accusations I've ever heard coming from you; regardless, Superman had just learned how to fly a few days before that fight. This is Justice League Superman. Try again.
Also that laser was way faster than Loki’s knife or Iron Man’s punches, lol.
He was headbutted by WW in the same ****ing scene. Oh the sheer and utter hypocrisy.
Uh, that's not hypocrisy, that's literally my point - Supes uses speed to avoid the dangerous attack (bracelets) and just tanks the harmless one (headbutt). No, being a little annoyed by the headbutt doesn't constitute danger.
Thor, meanwhile, has never shown any impressive dodging feats despite you wanking to his “fighting skill”.
I give examples you ignore them. You also say Superman just came back to life and want to ignore when he's attacked there. You're too biased to have a discussion with. You debate based off baseless claims.He had his speed and knew how to dodge. You act like he's a retard and can't evade attacks in Man of Steel. He isn't smart enough to use his speed to dodge since reasons.
Forget the other times he saved lives and used his speed because Ellimist wants to ignore another example and focus on just the small amount of time he speed blitzed. Everything else doesn't count, lol.
Are you seriously claiming that training and practice have no impact on your reflexes, ability to dodge attacks or your ability to use your powers strategically? Especially given your implication that Supes can only use his flash tier speed in bursts - which would require him to pace himself regularly?
Wait - wasn't your entire case for Thor that he was more skilled as a fighter? But you just claimed that skill is irrelevant! LMAO.
Thor can fire lightning comparable as fast in multiple directions in Ragnarok. But by your logic only Ragnarok counts since he progressed with his powers according to your biased logic despite you bringing up Iron Man.
No, because Thor has been fighting for thousands of years while Superman had just learned how to fly in MoS, so it's far more realistic to imagine that the latter would grow better than the former.
Now, answer the question: how do we take Thor’s reflexes seriously when he gets tagged by everyone and their mother?
So was Steppenwolf.
I get the impression you don't remember the film very clearly. Steppenwolf was not fighting anyone else during his initial swing at Superman, whether he was earlier or later is irrelevant.
Just because he dodges a few attacks doesn't prove he can dodge everything.
Proof that Thor is faster than Steppenwolf, let alone within two orders of magnitude of Supes?
We see a human is fast enough to tag him and he didn't get a lot of time against Steppenwolf.
And Captain America tagged Loki, who tagged Thor. Steve also tagged Iron Man, who tagged Thor. Yawn.
Speculation.He didn't die so it's a worthless example.
Lmao what? He didn't die because he finally managed to escape at the end, he seemed pretty desperate to get out to me. It's not speculative to imagine a terminal velocity fall won't harm Superman when the guy shrugs off being knocked into buildings and a nuclear warhead.
Superman also recovered due to the sun.
Sure (the sun's still in this fight btw), it injured him, but it didn't kill him.
Merely surviving a nuke and getting injured is WAAAAY more impressive than anything Thor’s ever done durability wise.
So ? Thor takes it easy on Loki. Doomsday killed him while he had help. I guess this is the same to you.
Lol so Thor takes it easy on Loki but Luke doesn't take it easy on Rey? 😆
Watch Thor’s fights. He never fights anywhere near the speed Superman shows in JL, or even MoS.
Doomsday >>>>>>> Loki in feats so your "rebuttal" is irrelevant.
He doesn't need to use a nuke on him. Horrible argument. Thor can ko him. If a sledgehammer ko'd someone that doesn't mean a piece of glass can't hurt them since the sledgehammer ko'd them.
No, but if he survives a nuke without dying it's safe to say some weak-ass attacks won't phase him. Your criticism would only apply if Thor's standard attacks were anywhere near a nuclear weapon in lethality. They're not.
Hulk can casually stop Leviathan's while Superman was ko'd by a tower. It's fun to just humiliate you with your own logic.
Superman was casually lifting a massive office building about equal in size to that leviathan. And Thor isn't as strong as the Hulk.
So, what advantage does Thor actually have over Superman? Not speed, clearly. Not strength, not durability – the only advantage I can see is that he can fight hand to hand better, which doesn’t matter because Superman’s fighting style doesn’t involve standing and fighting MMA style.
Every time Thor tries to hit Superman, it’ll look like when Steppenwolf does – he’ll literally be a statue.
Originally posted by The EllimistTo break it down and respond point for point I do but your own ignore every piece of evidence you don't like is childish. You're a dishonest poster. Deep down you know this to be true.
Haha apparently quanchi needs to quote the thing right above him when he never actually breaks the quote down anywayConfirmed troll or idiot. Well I guess that was already the dichotomy.
Originally posted by The EllimistThis entire post ethered the holy hell out of Quan.
Wait a minute – why are we trying to establish times Superman wasn’t invincible and ignoring all of Thor’s failures?Superman sometimes uses flash level speed, and sometimes is merely really fast. Thor [b]NEVER
fights at that speed, he barely fights faster than a well trained human.What about that fight where Thor was tagged multiple times by Iron Man, who in turn was tagged by Steve and Bucky?
Even before Justice League, Superman consistently fights by crashing people into buildings at hypersonic speeds, charging at Doomsday so fast he almost looks like a blur, etc.
Thor, meanwhile…looks identical to a stuntman who happens to be super strong.
So how does Thor even hit Superman again? Steppenwolf couldn’t, and Steppenwolf was beating around Diana who is a bullet timer.
Heck, where is the proof for your claim that Thor is more “skilled” than Superman? Superman seems to employ his powers much more effectively – he takes advantage of his flight both to maneuver and get momentum for his attacks, uses his environment (e.g. MoS), employs battlefield removal (e.g. BvS), etc. Thor’s only advantage is his alleged edge in hand to hand combat…which is irrelevant because he will look like a statue to Superman, who doesn’t stick around and box anyway.
Through this entire debate you’ve consistently mentioned flaws in Superman’s body of work while refusing to explain how Thor is actually better.
Lmao Superman gets weakened when he's near kryptonite, do you know like anything about the character?
Or rather, if we want to speculate to whether this version of Superman is uniquely different, why look at ambiguous feats given unknown kryptonite rules when you can look at Superman not near kryptonite? Oh, right – because you cherry pick feats based on their convenience, not their veracity.
It’s a basic tenant of good research to control for confounding variables, this one being kryptonite, but you don’t have any competence with actually analyzing things properly.
This is one of the funniest accusations I've ever heard coming from you; regardless, Superman had just learned how to fly a few days before that fight. This is Justice League Superman. Try again.
Also that laser was way faster than Loki’s knife or Iron Man’s punches, lol.
Uh, that's not hypocrisy, that's literally my point - Supes uses speed to avoid the dangerous attack (bracelets) and just tanks the harmless one (headbutt). No, being a little annoyed by the headbutt doesn't constitute danger.
Thor, meanwhile, has never shown any impressive dodging feats despite you wanking to his “fighting skill”.
Are you seriously claiming that training and practice have no impact on your reflexes, ability to dodge attacks or your ability to use your powers strategically? Especially given your implication that Supes can only use his flash tier speed in bursts - which would require him to pace himself regularly?
Wait - wasn't your entire case for Thor that he was more skilled as a fighter? But you just claimed that skill is irrelevant! LMAO.
No, because Thor has been fighting for thousands of years while Superman had just learned how to fly in MoS, so it's far more realistic to imagine that the latter would grow better than the former.
Now, answer the question: how do we take Thor’s reflexes seriously when he gets tagged by everyone and their mother?
I get the impression you don't remember the film very clearly. Steppenwolf was not fighting anyone else during his initial swing at Superman, whether he was earlier or later is irrelevant.
Proof that Thor is faster than Steppenwolf, let alone within two orders of magnitude of Supes?
And Captain America tagged Loki, who tagged Thor. Steve also tagged Iron Man, who tagged Thor. Yawn.
Lmao what? He didn't die because he finally managed to escape at the end, he seemed pretty desperate to get out to me. It's not speculative to imagine a terminal velocity fall won't harm Superman when the guy shrugs off being knocked into buildings and a nuclear warhead.
Sure (the sun's still in this fight btw), it injured him, but it didn't kill him.
Merely surviving a nuke and getting injured is WAAAAY more impressive than anything Thor’s ever done durability wise.
Lol so Thor takes it easy on Loki but Luke doesn't take it easy on Rey? 😆
Watch Thor’s fights. He never fights anywhere near the speed Superman shows in JL, or even MoS.
Doomsday >>>>>>> Loki in feats so your "rebuttal" is irrelevant.
No, but if he survives a nuke without dying it's safe to say some weak-ass attacks won't phase him. Your criticism would only apply if Thor's standard attacks were anywhere near a nuclear weapon in lethality. They're not.
Superman was casually lifting a massive office building about equal in size to that leviathan. And Thor isn't as strong as the Hulk.
So, what advantage does Thor actually have over Superman? Not speed, clearly. Not strength, not durability – the only advantage I can see is that he can fight hand to hand better, which doesn’t matter because Superman’s fighting style doesn’t involve standing and fighting MMA style.
Every time Thor tries to hit Superman, it’ll look like when Steppenwolf does – he’ll literally be a statue. [/B]
Just lol
Originally posted by Arachnid1I have refuted every single one of his points. He asks for examples and then when I give them he ignores them. It's a typical fanboy 101. One Knian laser rocked Superman. Doomsday also killed him and no one was helping him.
This entire post ethered the holy hell out of Quan.Just lol