Originally posted by Darth ThorKek.
Jeez.The Mary Sue thing is a complaint about the films quality and not to be taken literally in the versus forum.
My point was that you dismiss everything that shows us that Rey is on Kylo's level.
I said that Rey beating a injured Kylo is still a good feat for her, and your rebuttal basically was "MARY SUE!". I mean, I guess that she's a Mary Sue, but that isn't changing her powerlevel.
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Kek.My point was that you dismiss everything that shows us that Rey is on Kylo's level.
IOW if I don’t agree wih you it must mean I’m in denial. How about actually tacking my points instead of the baseless accusations.
Originally posted by UrsumelesI said that Rey beating a injured Kylo is still a good feat for her, and your rebuttal basically was "MARY SUE!". I mean, I guess that she's a Mary Sue, but that isn't changing her powerlevel.
Calm down that wasn’t a rebuttal to her feat. It was a piss take of how stupid that feat was.
It's obviously that Snoke is a Sidious-Valkorion rip-off, so much of an original character, Abrams. Or it is Disney's own cheap version of Valkorion.
Knights of Zakuul-Knights of Ren
Kylo Ren&Rey-Caedus-ish Revan&Meetra Surik
Snoke Not a Sith-Valkorion not a Sith
Snoke cut in half by Rey-Sidious cut in half by Luke
Snoke is scarred and deformed-Sidious is scarred and deformed
Snoke uses Force lightning-Sidious uses Force lightning
Snoke is old-Valkorion is old
Snoke is fond of both Force sides-Valkorion is fond of both Force sides
Last I checked, Byss is in the canon continuity of Star Wars, so does Malachor V.
It's obviously that they might set Snoke as the Disney version of the Emperor Reborn Palpatine in the Dark Empire comic books. I am sure this isn't the last time we heard of Snoke.
Funny part is that 'Snoke' in Norwegian means 'to rout'=a disorderly retreat of defeated troops
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
It's obviously that Snoke is a Sidious-Valkorion rip-off, so much of an original character, Abrams. Or it is Disney's own cheap version of Valkorion.Snoke Not a Sith-Valkorion not a Sith
Snoke uses Force lightning-Sidious uses Force lightning
Snoke is old-Valkorion is old
How are these ripping off the other characters? It's not like Dark Jedi aren't a thing, they don't have to be a Sith, Force Lighting isn't unique to Sidious and being old...well that's normal.
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
You think?Snoke is a Valkorion-Sidious rip-off. I am dazzled that the great Ant can't see through the lies of the Mice.
Snoke is nothing like Valkorion - and the small ways that they are similar is because Vitiate is a rip-off of Palpatine.
Originally posted by You
He might well have Luke level potential (or higher). But From the movie dialogue it seems Snoke would have been more than content with Kylo getting to Vader level. Which is a clear indication Snoke knows he himself is no Vader.
Originally posted by You, Earlier
So we both agree that at some point Snoke was gonna have a problem with Kylo’s full potential either way, whether that potential is more Vader level or whether it’s more Luke level.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Huh?The VD explicitly notes that Snoke wanted Kylo because he believes only a Skywalker could destroy the last jedi. Kylo wasn't meant to "help" destroy Luke. He was meant to destroy Luke. Hell, Snoke initially thought that Luke was Kylo's counterpart on the light side. I think it's made pretty clear that Kylo has Luke-level potential, if not higher.
You can't worm around this. Ren's full potential is Luke level, not Vader level. So yes, I agree that if Ren reached Peak Luke + level, Snoke wouldn't be able to handle him.
Originally posted by You
And don't forget given Snoke's own actions the second he learns of Luke's location. He's totally willing to cheat to kill Luke, and he would clearly have no qualms using his Forces to kill off Kylo once that's done.
Literally irrelevant. Snoke isn't peak Luke level, I agree.
Originally posted by You
Doesn't matter, given the guards are there, makes Snoke's "domination" of Kylo essentially a Non-Feat.Kylo makes his move as soon as he has back up to take out those guards. If he can't defeat all those guards on his own, then how could you possibly expect him to challenge Snoke when Snoke is backed up by those guards, and those guards showed they will act the second Kylo makes his move?
The hell?
You're the one trying to assert that Snoke needs his guards to subdue Kylo. I'm saying that just because the guards instinctively come to Snoke's side, doesn't mean he needs them to subdue Kylo. :/
Originally posted by You
I doubt the Force balances them out precisely the same. But meh.
Headcanon.
Originally posted by You
Even if they are, there's more to an apprentice than just Force Potential. Snoke clearly wasn't looking to follow the Rule of Two. He wanted Rey dead, and he would have betrayed Ren the second he didn't need him anymore, just as Han Solo explains to him in TFA.
Uhh, cool.
Originally posted by You
1)No, her POTENTIAL has risen to match Kylo's (or higher).
Originally posted by Me
Headcanon.
Originally posted by You
She wasn't born a Skywalker so could not have been his counterpart otherwise.
I shouldn't have bothered responding to the full post. Half of this shit is irrelevant. Rey is Kylo's counterpart, as he grows in power, so does she, hence why they're visibly equals. You'd have to be braindead to not see otherwise. That she has less training clearly doesn't matter, it seems, as she annihilated (an admittedly injured, broken) Kylo) without ever wielding a lightsaber.
Originally posted by You
2)Considering they fought different guards, that's too speculative. It's more then likely the most combat efficient guards went to face Kylo and vice versa.
In your next post, could you provide more solid evidence and less headcanon? Thanks.
Originally posted by You
3)Yes they stalemated reaching for Luke's lightsaber. The same Saber which Maz Kanata states in TFA calls to Rey now.
Oh lord. :/
The calling didn't save her from Snoke, did it? 😂
They stalemated. They're equals. Get over it.
Originally posted by You
4)I wouldn't say her TP "overwhelmed" Kylo in TFA. He read parts of her mind, but she resisted him reading the important stuff. In turn she read some of his mind, but it's not like he was expecting or resisting that.
Holy crap. 🙂
Rey, while literally having no training in the force, visibly overpowers Kylo's intrusions and in terms pinpoints and reveals his deepest fear. That is overwhelming. You're being braindead right now.
Originally posted by You
Oh Lucas himself would say Luke was only half trained and not on par with Vader yet.No Rey hasn't proven herself Kylo's equal in every aspect. Not at all.
Telepathically? Yes. Telekinetically? Yes. Saber skill? Perhaps, not that it's relevant to Snoke's domination of Rey.
Originally posted by You
I mean what are you actually suggesting here? That Rey doesn't need to read those Jedi books, or train in the slightest, but that she's still going to magically be equal to Kylo in Episode 9?
I mean, what are you actually suggesting here? That Rey doesn't need to read those Jedi books know she can use the force, or train in the slightest ever wield a lightsaber in her life, but that she's still going to magically be equal superior to Kylo in Episode 9 7?
Originally posted by You
That's taking Snoke's words (and the whole Mary Sue thing) way too far.
TFA already did that. 👆
Originally posted by You
Now what are you suggesting? That we should just give Snoke the feat of beating Kylo, even though Kylo never got the chance to attack back?
Are you okay?
I literally never once mentioned the lightning attack as a feat for Snoke. What I DID mention as a feat for Snoke indicating vast superiority to Kylo is his domination of Rey and ability to casually perform a feat multiple times that would kill Kylo from the exertion of doing it. Rey and Kylo stalemate for the lightsaber, Snoke grabs it from Rey and smacks her on the head without any effort whatsoever. Give me a break.
Originally posted by You
It seems like some here just really want to put Snoke on Palpatine's level, and are willing to jump there without sufficient evidence.
Quan really has broken you, man. I never once mentioned putting Snoke on Palpatine's level. Not without more evidence.
Originally posted by You
Look, Kylo killed his Master as soon as he had back up to take on those guards. It's not that easy to take out your Master (even by surprise). If it was Palpatine wouldn't have survived having 3 different apprentices, and only finally get killed while distracted by 2 Skywalkers, and still take one of them out with him. Therefore it's logical to assume, that even to take out a Dark Side Master by surprise, the Apprentice must be already approaching their level of power.
This is the most irrelevant response I have ever seen. There is so much context here that I don't even know how to begin to respond to this. The evidence shows the following:
[list]
[*]Snoke can casually perform a feat multiple times that would kill Kylo from the exertion.
[*]Snoke can effortlessly rip the lightsaber from Rey's grip and steal whatever knowledge he wants from her, and ragdoll her, all casually.
[*]The same Rey is holistically implied and empirically shown to be every bit as powerful as Kylo.
[/list]
The guards are irrelevant to the argument at hand, as I never argued that Snoke's lightning attack proves vast superiority to Kylo (other stuff does).
I don't want any headcanon in your next post. Put up or shut up. 🙂