Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZI'm also not really seeing how Snoke's admiration for Vader implies that Snoke is inferior. Hell, Snoke wanted Kylo to become the next Vader, but ultimately still have Kylo under his thumb.
We saw how he was keeping Kylo in check though. With his personal guards as back up. Like Han Solo warns Kylo in TFA, Snoke would have betrayed him as soon as he got what he wanted from him.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
We saw how he was keeping Kylo in check though. With his personal guards as back up. Like Han Solo warns Kylo in TFA, Snoke would have betrayed him as soon as he got what he wanted from him.
I have no doubt that Kylo would eventually surpass Snoke, especially if he is supposed to surpass Luke, as Ellimist said. But Kylo becoming the next Vader and being under Snoke's thumb =/= reaching his full potential and murdering Luke, imo.
Again, we explicitly see in the movie how Kylo's equal and Snoke compare in terms of applicable power. The idea that current!Ren is on par with or even close to Snoke is a bit unfounded, imo.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I have no doubt that Kylo would eventually surpass Snoke, especially if he is supposed to surpass Luke, as Ellimist said. But Kylo becoming the next Vader and being under Snoke's thumb =/= reaching his full potential and murdering Luke, imo.
So we both agree that at some point Snoke was gonna have a problem with Kylo’s full potential either way, whether that potential is more Vader level or whether it’s more Luke level.
However the goal seems to have been to get him to Vader level, use his powers to help destroy Luke, and then eventually kill Kylo.
Given he was already using back up to keep Kylo in check, it seems to go without saying he would have used all the resources at hand to destroy Kylo when he was of no further use.
It’s obvious Snoke wasn’t following the Rule of Two, finding his most powerful potential successor, given he had no interest in Rey.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZAgain, we explicitly see in the movie how Kylo's equal and Snoke compare in terms of applicable power. The idea that current!Ren is on par with or even close to Snoke is a bit unfounded, imo.
Again I just don’t agree that Rey was already Ren’s equal as of TFA or TLJ.
In raw power and potential? Sure. But without sufficient training and practice she can’t be IMO.
I also question the “huge gap” between Snoke and Kylo when Snoke uses his guards as back up to aid him in keeping Kylo in check, and when Kylo was able to sucker punch Snoke whilst Snoke was actively reading his mind. Especially when Snoke’s TP abilities are amongst of his greatest showings that people keep harping on about.
Originally posted by The EllimistAnd ? It depends on what you use your might on. As I said their forces are clearly outnumbered but this doesn't come down to the size of your navy but more or less the might of your forces.
Lmao the First Order has like thirty star destroyers in total, the Republic had like several thousand above Coruscant in the opening RotS scene alone, let alone the larger imperial star fleet.
Starkiller is going to annihilate five huge targets they select at will. The destroyers weren't what was impressive in the empire it was the Death Stars that struck fear throughout the galaxy. Their tech is also superior to the empire's so it isn't just *** for tat. Hell, we see Ewoks mount a defense against their Stormtroopers guarding the force field to the Death Star.
Their weapon of mass destruction is going to carve the empire up. In Star Wars we see how pivotal just a few characters like Anakin and Kenobi were in Rots. It has never been about the numerical advantage. The rebellion was clearly less powerful and less organized than the First Order and they came out on top.
Originally posted by quanchi112
And ? It depends on what you use your might on. As I said their forces are clearly outnumbered but this doesn't come down to the size of your navy but more or less the might of your forces.
Yeah and even if the FO has an advantage one vs. one there is no evidence that they can win like 1000 to 1 odds, so they still lose.
Starkiller is going to annihilate five huge targets they select at will.
Well yeah, we're not talking about Starkiller base.
In Star Wars we see how pivotal just a few characters like Anakin and Kenobi were in Rots. It has never been about the numerical advantage.
Lol that's a silly analogy, unless if every FO stormtrooper is a high-level Force user or Kylo Ren is going to start taking out star destroyers or something.
The rebellion was clearly less powerful and less organized than the First Order and they came out on top.
?? The rebellion is losing as of TLJ, but I wouldn't be surprised if when they win in episode 9 they'll do so with far fewer resources than the original Alliance in the OT, so yeah. 👆
Originally posted by The EllimistA dreadnought is a fleet killer. They were so advanced in every fashion it isn't going to be a numbers game.
Yeah and even if the FO has an advantage one vs. one there is no evidence that they can win like 1000 to 1 odds, so they still lose.Well yeah, we're not talking about Starkiller base.
Lol that's a silly analogy, unless if every FO stormtrooper is a high-level Force user or Kylo Ren is going to start taking out star destroyers or something.
?? The rebellion is losing as of TLJ, but I wouldn't be surprised if when they win in episode 9 they'll do so with far fewer resources than the original Alliance in the OT, so yeah. 👆
I am talking about the entirety of the First Order not just their navies. I have always said as much. In an all out war the First Order would hammer the empire.
Killing key characters like Tarkin, Vader, and Palpatine would clearly make a difference.
They are going to clearly inspire more. We have never seen circumstances so grim for them to be pinned on one planet and to have no way out save a Luke stalling tactic.
When it's all said and done the First Order would win a war after their trilogy is complete with the empire.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
The space battles were just lolworthy anyway, with the brilliant idea of dropping bombs right above targets like WW1 and a plot-breaking light speed ramming that nobody's ever thought of before.