Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Anakin can replicate and perhaps surpass anything Sidious, Luke, or Valkorion has down raw power-wise, IMO.The issue comes down to mastery, in which he's obviously not at the level of Force storms or planetary draining.
Which is why Anakin dies to any of them in a fight.
Originally posted by samappo
@DarthAnt66 As in, if you can, provide the sources that confirm this. I wasn't aware NG [I'm presuming] labelled Anakin as approaching 10 for example.
"There’s up to eight levels. Yoda is an eight, Mace Windu is an eight, Obi is a seven, but if you miss a level, it’s a bit like taking drugs to get enlightenment.” Anakin is the perfect example of messing with the established system. “I’ve got him down as an eight or nine, which doesn’t really exist,” says Gillard, before explaining that by turning to the Dark Side, Anakin skipped some essential steps. “It’s only a writing tool,” he says, “but it gives you the edge over it just being a fight."
He's using a different scaling system here (9 being peak instead of the normal 10).
So while there are statements saying Knightfall > RotS Sidious, there are also statements labeling Sidious the most powerful sith, so the clear answer is either it's ambiguous or that one is better in raw power (likely Vader) while the other is better overall.
That ambiguity does not translate to a win over DE Sidious, and certainly not over Luke.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
>implying all statements are to be treated equally😉
The most obvious interpretation is that Knightfall Vader beats RotS Sidious in a duel thanks to raw power, but nowhere does Lucas and co. suggest he matches Sidious in telekinesis, FL, etc. So we take the other sources' word that Palpatine is more powerful overall.
Then we're comparing him to DE Sidious who is like a walking dark side nexus that can destroy moons and Luke Skywalker who by powerscaling should be above even Wankatine.
Fact: Anakin's realised power was already on Palpatine and Yoda's tier and arguably above them.
Fact: Vader's power was already massively greater to what it had been beforehand after Knightfall and prior to mental fvckery.
The only argument is how powerful that actually makes him and does it make him GOAT?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
The most obvious interpretation is that Knightfall Vader beats RotS Sidious in a duel thanks to raw power, but nowhere does Lucas and co. suggest he matches Sidious in telekinesis, FL, etc. So we take the other sources' word that Palpatine is more powerful overall.Then we're comparing him to DE Sidious who is like a walking dark side nexus that can destroy moons and Luke Skywalker who by powerscaling should be above even Wankatine.
Luke > Sidious, yet Luke never shows the same scale of power as Sidious. Thanks for making the same argument as to why Sidious and Valkorion's showings don't make them superior to KF!Vader due to his lack of them.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
The most obvious interpretation is that Knightfall Vader beats RotS Sidious in a duel thanks to raw power, but nowhere does Lucas and co. suggest he matches Sidious in telekinesis, FL, etc. So we take the other sources' word that Palpatine is more powerful overall.Then we're comparing him to DE Sidious who is like a walking dark side nexus that can destroy moons and Luke Skywalker who by powerscaling should be above even Wankatine.
As of Operation: Knightfall, Anakin's powers are boundless without any mental handicap to restrict his potential. He's already beginning to exhibit Chosen One-esque heights when he decides Dooku will lose. You argue that may be hyperbole, in which I would agree if the text doesn't again feature Anakin willing an event into occurrence by landing the Invisible Hand - a feat deemed impossible by both Mace Windu and the narrator. The text even states how Anakin landed it only because his resolve to save his friends was greater than the Force's will, which I think frankly parallels with the Mortis arc and Anakin's overpowering of the Ones there. My perception of Anakin during this time is someone who's just rapidly expanding unlike anything we've ever seen. While he has ways to go before reaching his full potential, I see him as driving 80 MPH to the finish line during the later events of Revenge of the Sith.
For the record, I think many more sources support the idea Anakin > RotS Sidious than otherwise.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Luke > Sidious, yet Luke never shows the same scale of power as Sidious. Thanks for making the same argument as to why Sidious and Valkorion's showings don't make them superior to KF!Vader due to his lack of them.
Not the same at all. There are active arguments for putting Luke above DE Sidious, but none for putting Vader above DE Sidious...