Darth Sidious vs. Valkorion - TP Battle

Originally posted by Neph
And in any case Thrawn is still only talking about the specific fleet at Endor. Hence why he starts out by saying "Yes, Captain, you were there,"

"Not at all, Master C'baoth," Thrawn told him, his voice perfectly calm again. "My analogy with combat borg implants was a carefully considered one. The Emperor's fatal error was in seeking to control the entire Imperial Fleet personally, as completely and constantly as possible. That, over the long run, is what did the damage. My wish is merely to have you enhance the coordination between ships and task forces - and then only at critical times and in carefully selected combat situations."

Thrawn says he only wants C'Baoth to do it in combat situations, and not constantly like Sidious did it.

And the "you were there" refers to the fact that he was there in the moment (or the fight) as the fighting spirit of the Empire died.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I'm sure you know that Revan and Malak were described as bordering on the dark side and that this made it easier for Vitiate who had prep and a nexus to break them.

Using prep would contradict the fact that he only needed a fraction of his power to do it. The reason to use prep is if you require more power than you're capable of pulling out at an instant. Which is contradictory. Likewise with a nexus. Revan and Malak were both proven capable of drawing on darkside nexuses in any case.

Fuck the formatting

Originally posted by Azronger
It's also stated Vitiate can't even bind non-Force sensitives to his will while on a nexus during the events of the novel, and requires a ritual for it. He definitely had prep for Revan and Malak:

“The last time you were here?” Scourge said, pouncing on the phrase. “Have some of your memories returned?”Â_

“Seeing my old mask triggered something.Â_[b]I remember everything now,” Revan admitted. “Malak and I learned the Sith still survived. We came here to Dromund Kaas to investigate. Posing as mercenaries, we spent months learning everything we could about the Emperor and his people. Even back then he was already planning his invasion of the Republic. When Malak and I learned of his preparations, we tried to stop him. We found a member of the Imperial Guard who was willing to sneak us inside the citadel.”Â_

“Impossible,” Scourge declared. “The Guard are bound to the Emperor’s will at the end of their trainingÂ_by a powerful ritual.Â_They would never betray him!”Â_

“True, but we didn’t know that at the time,” Revan explained. “We were being led into a trap; the Emperor wanted us to come to him. When we got to his throne room, he was ready and waiting.” His voice dropped low. “We underestimated his power.Â_When we confronted him, he didn’t even have to fight us. Instead, he broke our wills. He dominated our minds, turning us into puppets to do his bidding. He sent us back to the Republic as the vanguard of his invasion, with instructions to report back when all resistance was crushed.

The Old Republic: Revan [/B]

The Imperial Guard are a special case, like the Hands. They're bound to his will in such a way that they can draw upon his power when near him. Clearly that requires a specialised ritual instead of a standard mindfvck.

Anyway, this is eating into my precious me time. I'm neglecting Kaiji right at the interesting part.

I may continue this discussion but I'm bowing out for today at least.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I thought I was too, but it appears I was mistaken. Thank you Azronger for this revelation:

"Slowly but steadily, he used his dark Force powers to enslave the people on the world and drain their life energies to fuel his own vile experiments."
--Byss and the Deep Core

🙂

Dramath went to find Vitiate, not the other way around. If anyone would have prep it'd be him. And baring that in mind I doubt he had aid. Its directly stated that "When they met face-to-face, Tenebrae proved the stronger. Only ten years old, he stripped his father of his power and his mind."

Which he did by mind****ing them, yes: "“We underestimated his power. When we confronted him, he didn’t even have to fight us. Instead, he broke our wills. He dominated our minds, turning us into puppets to do his bidding."

And he was a highly weakened spirit. That was the whole point. Obviously his power after draining the planet would be far greater than it was on it.

I still don't see "decades." Is there more to the quote? I think you may have forgot to quote the rest.

Well I doubt Sidious had aid, too, but obviously personal incredulity doesn't mean much. Force users can sense each other over long distances and Vitiate is theoretically smart enough to deduce his father, the planet's king, would seek him out. Either way, though, that quote doesn't prove that Vitiate did not use prep or aid to enslave Dramath's mind.

The quote you cited doesn't mention him turning them to the dark side. All we know is that it took a mere fraction of his powers to complete their fall to the dark side. The preceding sentence in the encyclopedia confirms they were already teetering on the brink anyway. And as Revan himself discusses in the novel, it was a trap on a potent dark side nexus.

We also know that rituals were needed to bind the non-Force sensitive guards to him...

That's the point, indeed: he still had an enormously potent nexus on which to draw for his efforts.
__________________

But Drew stated that Vitiate would require prep lol. Remember that email I sent?

Jack, you told us you fabricated that quote.

Nah lol. That was a troll.

Originally posted by Azronger
And I'm beginning to question if your IQ really is 140.

Wait, it is?

Anyway I still don't see a strong refutation of Palpatine's galaxy-wide TP except for attempts to splice together different novel contexts to argue that the sourcebooks were only talking about Endor even when they specifically mention it in the context of the whole Empire.

Vitiate could suppress the power of Vaylin, control the minds of his personal powerbase, control the minds of his Force-sensitive Children including Exal Kressh, dominate the First Son Syo Bakarn and gift him enough power to shroud all of his children amongst the Jedi Order, stalemate Sel-Makor in the Dark Heart for control of his Voss, dominate the minds of Leeha Narezz, Warren Sedoru, Tol Braga, and the Hero of Tython. He was also stated by Meetra's spirit to be close to overpowering Revan's mind when he was freed. All whilst he was getting ready to power his Dark Ritual to consume the galaxy.

Valkorion is massively more powerful than Vitiate. No contest whatsoever.

"The Emperor was. . . powerful. He alone was worthy. But now he is silent. None can control us."

Seems the Emperor was controlling the Dread Masters after release on Belsavis. But they went rogue when he died. He's the greatest telepath ever then, no argument.

Sidious scales from Plagueis who telepathically reached out to every being in the galaxy. Sids wrecks yea.

Kbro can't read again. Plagueis used MM to announce his presence to all living things, not TP.

Vitiate simultaneously suppressing Vaylin, dominating Syo Bakarn, being capable of eventually dominating Revan as per Surik, controlling the Dread Masters, influencing all of his Children, dominating Tol Braga, Hero of Tython, Leeha and Warren Sedoru, all whilst fueling thousands of beings with his power and still maintaining this control while fighting Sel-Makor in the Dark Heart, and then having enough remaining power to enact the Dark Ritual. Is vastly more impressive.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Kbro can't read again. Plagueis used MM to announce his presence to all living things, not TP.

Aight then.

Via, AP's interpretation, Plagueis used mediclhorian manipulation on very being in the galaxy which blows anything Valk has ever done out of the water.

However, intellectual honesty, which AP seems to lack, compels me to be a tad more logical.

And so he had stretched out—indeed, as if invisible, transubstantiated—to inform every being of his existence, and impact all of them: Muunoid or insectoid, secure or dispossessed, free or enslaved. A warrior waving a banner in triumph on a battlefield. A ghost infiltrating a dream.

But ultimately to no end. The Force grew silent, as if in flight from him, and many of the animals in his laboratory succumbed to horrifying diseases.
Darth Plagueis

As the intended impact was mental rather than physical, I find it far more likely Plagueis's feat was one of TP rather than MM, though I'd much prefer for it to be the latter.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
^^^

That sounds like Battle Meditation.

Him using it to call out through the Force isn't the same as him manipulating the midichlorians themselves, lmfao.

I like how you start quoting after his musings. It isn't TP, it's him calling out through the Force. It was literally just him shouting through the Force.

It's likely affecting the Force with his presence through some kind of feat.

Regardless, what Tenebrae can do prior to massive power growth shits on any of Plagueis' actual feats.

Originally posted by AncientPower

Him using it to call out through the Force isn't the same as him manipulating the mediclhorian themselves, lmfao.

blows anything Valk has ever done out of the water.

I like how you start quoting after his musings. It isn't TP, it's him calling out through the Force. It was literally just him shouting through the Force.
.

Not sure where you're getting the MM bit from. Quote?

Regardless, what Tenebrae can do prior to massive power growth shits on any of Plagueis' actual feats.

You realise massively pre-prime Exar Kun has screamed twice through the Force, causing ripples, and every Jedi in the galaxy felt it?

Now it's not every living being in the galaxy perse, but it's every single one of those tens of thousands of Jedi. Kun's power effectively multiplies from this and yet he's sub-SWTOR Vitiate.

You're claiming Valkorion can't when he's never tried. Furthermore, we're talking about a telepathic war between powerhouses here.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
mediclhorians

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
mediclhorians