Darth Sidious vs. Valkorion - TP Battle

Originally posted by AncientPower
You realise massively pre-prime Exar Kun has screamed twice through the Force, causing ripples, and every Jedi in the galaxy felt it?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Now it's not every living being in the galaxy perse, but it's every single one of those tens of thousands of Jedi. Kun's power effectively multiplies from this and yet he's sub-SWTOR Vitiate.
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You're claiming Valkorion can't when he's never tried.

Furthermore, we're talking about a telepathic war between powerhouses here.

Though I really don't have an issue with you taking it as an act of MM as that would end Plagueis vs anyone who doesn't scale from him as an argument.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa_hIvM7AiY

Sometimes I'm amazed you can even log into the forum.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Every jedi vs Every jedi +non force-sensitive individual. Do I really need to explain to you why the latter is vastly more impressive than the former.

Thousands vs Trillions. There is absolutely no comparison here.

AP Logic: Plagueis never tried to make a planetary death field, so Valk's Ziost feat is irrelevant.

Yes, and Plagueis reaching out to mentally inform everyone of his presence is telepathy, not MM.

Though I really don't have an issue with you taking it as an act of MM as that would end Plagueis vs anyone who doesn't scale from him as an argument.

I'm not going to bother getting into another one of your anti-logic rants.

But I will make this point, informing every living thing in the galaxy of your existence is not nearly the same as dominating them. And as massive as the scale of this feat is, it's essentially a quantity feat in which he never really has to subjugate anyone.

I'm not saying it isn't impressive, but it's not nearly as impressive as simultaneously outright dominating Vaylin, Revan(eventually), the Dread Masters, the Hero of Tython, Syo Bakarn, Tol Braga, Warren Sedoru, Leeha Narizz, thousands of Jedi and Sith, the entire Imperial Guard and had the remaining strength to stalemate Sel-Makor in the Dark Heart where Sel-Makor is essentially all-powerful, dying, and still maintaining all of that power whilst enacting the Dark Ritual, being massively weakened and still maintaining all of that whilst threatening to be capable of dominating Lord Scourge and Kira Carsen almost instantly per Scourge himself. Not to mention all of the power he's giving to his thousands of Children and Imperial Guard whenever they require it.

There's no comparison at all, and yet Valkorion grows massively more powerful.

Uh, Plagueis is pretty obviously using MM in that quote. That's why his animals got horrible diseases.

You don't get AIDs from telepathy.

I was going to suggest that, yeah. Problem is he thinks that is impressive, when we already have a list of things he does that he says is easy. Midichlorian Manipulation is essentially cheating the boundaries of power.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Uh, Plagueis is pretty obviously using MM in that quote. That's why his animals got horrible diseases.

You don't get AIDs from telepathy.

Naturally, Valk has never achieved anything close.

It specifically says the Force did jack shit in response. 😬

"But ultimately to no end. The Force grew silent, as if in flight from him, and many of the animals in his laboratory succumbed to horrifying diseases."

I love how desperately Plagueis' feats are grasped on.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It specifically says the Force did jack shit in response. 😬

"But ultimately to no end. [b]The Force grew silent, as if in flight from him, and many of the animals in his laboratory succumbed to horrifying diseases." [/B]

That's a response.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I love how desperately Plagueis' feats are grasped on.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
It states that the Force recoiled from him, causing the life he had unnaturally induced into existence to die off.

That's a response.

The what? He didn't make those animals afaik. In fact I just checked and:

"Deeper in the mountain were laboratories where Plagueis’s real work took place. Confined to cages, stasis fields, bioreactors, and bacta tanks were life-forms brought to Muunilinst from across the galaxy—many from the galaxy’s most remote worlds. "

As for the feat itself, read the whole paragraph:

"Drunk on newfound power, then, he had attempted an even more unthinkable act: to bring into being a creation of his own. Not merely the impregnation of some hapless, mindless creature, but the birth of a Forceful being. The ability to dominate death had been a step in the right direction, but it wasn’t equivalent to pure creation. And so he had stretched out—indeed, as if invisible, transubstantiated—to inform every being of his existence, and impact all of them: Muunoid or insectoid, secure or dispossessed, free or enslaved. A warrior waving a banner in triumph on a battlefield. A ghost infiltrating a dream.
But ultimately to no end.
The Force grew silent, as if in flight from him, and many of the animals in his laboratory succumbed to horrifying diseases."

He's obviously attempting to use MM across the galaxy and create life, but it backfires and only gets his animals to mutate and die of horrible diseases (or maybe he creates Anakin???).

In either case the text is pretty clear in what hes doing? 😬

I can see how people would think that's a telepathy feat if someone were to only partially post it without context, but it seems like its just a case of the poetic language being misleading. In fact instead of being a good feat for him the impression I get is that he likely failed and only affected stuff in his immediate area.

The what? He didn't make those animals afaik.

Deeper in the complex, they moved past cages containing as many creatures as could be found in a well-stocked zoo. OneOne-FourDee indicated a cluster separate from the rest. "These are the Magister's most recent pregnancies."

"What did the droid mean when it said the Magister's pregnancies?" Beneath the breath mask, Plagueis might have quirked a smile." It means that the pregnancies were not achieved by normal means of conception, but rather through the Force."

That said I'll concede that we do not know whether it was these creatures specifically that succumbed, the point being that the Force's anathema manifested itself.

He's obviously attempting to use MM across the galaxy and create life, but it backfires and only gets his animals to mutate and die of horrible diseases (or maybe he creates Anakin???).

In either case the text is pretty clear in what hes doing?

The death of his test subjects is never stated to be a result of a failed attempt to manipulate them, but the act of the Force recoiling from him, which as we know, underpins the basis of all life.

And just so we clear, you're correct, Plagueis stretching his essence across the span of the galaxy to touch it's one hundred quadrillion sentient species + quadrillions upon quadrillions of other organisms, in an act that's essentially a communion with the depth and breadth of the Living Force itself, resulting in the omnipresent energy field that governs the entire universe to physically rebuke him, is not comparable to Valkorion's conventional showings of telepathy at all, because it's in another league and sphere of ability entirely, and makes them look utterly pedestrian by any contrast.

Likewise I'll concede that it may have been those ones, but who knows. I think its pretty damn clear that the Force didn't inflict those diseases on them though, as the text specifically says the Force didn't respond. Nor would recoiling from him spontaneously produce disease in animals. Diseases are afterall a form of life or at least a component of life and not the absense of it.

And I'm really not sure how you think he wasn't using MM there considering thats literally what it says hes doing. Just projecting his essense wouldn't create life, nor would it cause the Force to recoil from him or respond to him. It says that he attempted the manipulation and obviously that is what he is doing.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And just so we clear, you're correct, Plagueis stretching his essence across the span of the galaxy to touch it's one hundred quadrillion sentient species + quadrillions upon quadrillions of other organisms, in an act that's essentially a communion with the depth and breadth of the Living Force itself, resulting in the omnipresent energy field that governs the entire universe to physically rebuke him, is not comparable to Valkorion's conventional showings of telepathy at all, because is in another league and sphere of ability entirely, and makes them look utterly pedestrian by any contrast.

Oh ok, concession accepted I suppose. Since its not telepathy its irrelevant.

Rocky
Yes, and Plagueis reaching out to mentally inform everyone of his presence is telepathy, not MM.

👆

It was a grandiose act of telepathy intended to herald his attempt to create "a Forceful being." Or a grandiose act of telepathy that was performed simultaneously with his attempt to create one.

But either way, it's obvious telepathy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Likewise I'll concede that it may have been those ones, but who knows. I think its pretty damn clear that the Force didn't inflict those diseases on them though, as the text specifically says the Force didn't respond. Nor would recoiling from him spontaneously produce disease in animals. Diseases are afterall a form of life or at least a component of life and not the absense of it.

And I'm really not sure how you think he wasn't using MM there considering thats literally what it says hes doing. Just projecting his essense wouldn't create life, nor would it cause the Force to recoil from him or respond to him. It says that he attempted the manipulation and obviously that is what he is doing.

And like I said, even if his end intentions were to use midi-chlorian manipulation across the galaxy, he'd still have to project himself first.

Oh ok, concession accepted I suppose. Since its not telepathy its irrelevant.

C'mon, Beni, Nephtard is beneath your notice. Let him perpetuate his stupidity on his own. No need to coax him to reveal the ugly side of humanity to the rest of us.