Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by SunRazer
It has to do with the fact that it might not necessarily make amends for inferior combative skill?
Anyone can lose with any ability. I'm not suggesting its flawless, just that its a way to deal with a specific problem and that its a very effective combat skill.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Effective to what extent, though? Not enough to win them the fights, lol.
Effective as a tool in combat. For example:
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The difference being that if Valkorion ported behind Mace and instantly blasted him in the back with lightning, Mace would not get back up again. The First Son was hindered by Syo and Revan/the Dread Masters were fighting an entire strike team of elites.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Again, that's dependent on the environment. If we've got twisting tunnels or several different floors, then perhaps. Just teleporting 10m behind someone on flat plains? Not so much.
Well firstly its not as if theres a set location for this thread. And I disagree entirely with your assertion. The idea that distance is irrelevant in a fight is easily proven incorrect if one were to watch just about any fight where the Force is used. It also ignores that his opponent can attack far faster than Mace can run 10 meters (not that that's some sort of limit on distance). When Mace fought Talzin he didn't blitz her when she attacked, he jumped out of the way. And he was looking right at her and only a few feet away from her.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Where did I suggest that? I suggested that it's not got a good record of altering the outcome of fights, and I'm correct on that.
You're lowballing it hard, man.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Sure, so did Satele Shan and Abeloth. But for our purposes, that counts as losing the fight.
Uh, sure. But your argument was "And given how none of them could use it even to flee by the end of their fights, presumably it does require considerable effort that we can't see just because they don't perform complex hand manoeuvres or scream in exertion." Revan used it to flee twice after being defeated. The Dread Masters also do so.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Did you miss what I said about them suddenly not being able to do it at the end of the fight to run away after using it in combat? An'ya Kuro, Jadus, First Son, Dread Masters, etc? I addressed your claim on the apparent effort; you think that only because they don't perform gestures or scream in exertion. But that's not necessary when we have other avenues of looking at it. For instance, it seems like once they're injured or exhausted, it becomes impossible to use... not exactly fitting the description of an effortlessly spammable power.The idea that they can use it instantly (not relevant) and consecutively isn't mutually exclusive with the idea that it takes a noticeable toll on their reserves. Anyway, is your example of it being spammable the First Son? Because that's possibly not even teleportation. Either that or it proves that you can hit someone mid-teleportation.
Aaaand now I'm confused. I just pointed out that Revan uses it to flee after being defeated twice bro. The Dread Masters do it as well. I guess you misunderstood me since I didn't say he did it after being beaten.
The First Son uses teleport rapidly yes. But the time you're talking about when he gets hit he's using invisibility instead. Regardless you were wrong in your assertion and even if you weren't Valk's reserves are far deeper than almost anyones. If it did take a noticeable toll though I really doubt Jadus would use it to dodge a single blaster shot instead of just, like, sidestepping. :I
Originally posted by SunRazer
If Valkorion teleports a substantial distance up a considerable incline and starts shelling Mace with Senate pods, then that might be a comparable situation.On even ground, without a plethora of potential telekinetic weapons to help slow any possible ascent? Not comparable.
An entirely possible situation.
Any Force attack of Valkorions would stop Mace in his tracks. But again you're vastly overestimating how easily even swift fighters can cover ground against an attacking foe, when the evidence is against you.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Sure, again, depending on the individuals' combat speeds/abilities and the environment. Not all of your examples will be comparable to Mace and Valkorion on what I presume is flat ground. But perhaps you've got some that are. I'm willing to discuss.
Well, Revan vs Vitiate for one lol. Or Vitiate vs the Jedi Strike team. Dooku vs Anakin. Etc etc. And I don't see why you're presuming that. The thread is made to cover the persons overall capabilities, its not a battle thread.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Sure, but Sidious boasts greater combat speed/ability than Valkorion. This is the guy who, on a potent dark side nexus, couldn't react to someone sending a bolt of Lightning back at him (even Dooku could manage that twice in AotC), and on that same nexus, only reacted to an astromech droid's attack "at the last instant". Then, on that same nexus, having a decent chance of losing to an injured Revan + two characters that he could've literally one-shotted. Not to mention walking straight into someone's lightsaber like a kid into a candy shop.Compare that to Sidious disarming Maul in one strike once he pulls out all the stops (Shadow Conspiracy), disarming Yoda with a burst of Lightning (RotS movie), striking down Kit Fisto whilst simultaneously contending with an equal in Mace (RotS again), etc. So Sidious has a good record of precise, well-timed strikes in the midst of combat; not a bad thing that Mace was tagged by his TK on one occasion (and he recovered instantly anyway). I've yet to see Vitiate demonstrate that level of in-combat precision, timing or general ability.
Oh, so we're lowballing huh?
So getting surprised by a droid is bad huh? Yeah, ok:
But no, Maces combat speed is just off the carts, look at how he dominates Maul in a 2v1 fight:
Ah but surely he's in the highest tiers in sheer combat ability:
"Mace Windu had to use all his skills to defeat the dark side fighter Asajj Ventress."
Don't bring that lowball cancer into this. You know that Valkorion is far greater than those incarnations at any rate.
You've yet to see? How quickly you forget about our last discussion. Where it was proved that Valkorion can instantly stop time and instantly launch attacks out of stopped time (and attack in stopped time but regardless). So how, pray tell, would Windu deal with an instant attack coming from an overwhelmingly powerful opponent that he can't even see? Die, obviously. 😉