Originally posted by cs_zoltan
That matters because?
He's an unfit non-force sensitive. GG would hardly appear to do so against anyone of worth. Actual teleportation is a different story. Valk will actually instantly appear behind Mace and blast his ass before he can do anything about it.
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Dopplegangers, teleportation, barrier, and omnidirectional lightning/dark side attacks should make lightsaber combat useless for Mace, tbh.It's not like Valkorion is lacking in reaction/perception time, either.
He can more or less stop time as well. Windu has no hope of getting to him.
Originally posted by Nephthys
He's an unfit non-force sensitive. GG would hardly appear to do so against anyone of worth. Actual teleportation is a different story. Valk will actually instantly appear behind Mace and blast his ass before he can do anything about it.
You mean how Anakin could follow Mace's movement? Oh wait...
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Force-users generally perceive their opponent via Force senses and precognition, not eyesight.
Honestly, reading the actual passage that Ellimist posted:
Originally posted by The Ellimist
[b]Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind—the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sun fire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his
own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.^ It seems like Anakin is pretty astounded by their speed, and regardless it's still a good feat vs. a Valkorion whose reflexes and general combat awareness aren't particularly elite. [/B]
It seems to me that it could merely be saying that Mace is being obscured by Sidious' "thickening black haze" and thus appears to be fading in and out of existance. Anakin describes Mace's "relentless straight-ahead march", which doesn't suggest he's zipping around that much tbh.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Which has nothing to do with the technique itself.
It has to do with the fact that it might not necessarily make amends for inferior combative skill?
Every time its been shown used its been effective.
Effective to what extent, though? Not enough to win them the fights, lol.
It was brought up specifically as a counter to Maces lightsaber assault. If you have reason to suggest it couldn't do that then it'd be relevant.
Again, that's dependent on the environment. If we've got twisting tunnels or several different floors, then perhaps. Just teleporting 10m behind someone on flat plains? Not so much.
Your suggestion that its a trash ability isn't though.
Where did I suggest that? I suggested that it's not got a good record of altering the outcome of fights, and I'm correct on that.
And Revan uses it to flee twice, actually.
Sure, so did Satele Shan and Abeloth. But for our purposes, that counts as losing the fight.
Your assumption of effort is baseless and its been proven to be able to be used instantly, consecutively, in combination with force attacks and with no apparent effort.
Did you miss what I said about them suddenly not being able to do it at the end of the fight to run away after using it in combat? An'ya Kuro, Jadus, First Son, Dread Masters, etc? I addressed your claim on the apparent effort; you think that only because they don't perform gestures or scream in exertion. But that's not necessary when we have other avenues of looking at it. For instance, it seems like once they're injured or exhausted, it becomes impossible to use... not exactly fitting the description of an effortlessly spammable power.
The idea that they can use it instantly (not relevant) and consecutively isn't mutually exclusive with the idea that it takes a noticeable toll on their reserves. Anyway, is your example of it being spammable the First Son? Because that's possibly not even teleportation. Either that or it proves that you can hit someone mid-teleportation.
You mean like Yoda covered the distance between him and Sidious instantly in the senate?
If Valkorion teleports a substantial distance up a considerable incline and starts shelling Mace with Senate pods, then that might be a comparable situation.
On even ground, without a plethora of potential telekinetic weapons to help slow any possible ascent? Not comparable.
There are countless of examples of people getting attacks off when given distance and their opponents not knowing where they are (and comparatively miniscule amounts of fighters covering ground before such attacks can be used).
Sure, again, depending on the individuals' combat speeds/abilities and the environment. Not all of your examples will be comparable to Mace and Valkorion on what I presume is flat ground. But perhaps you've got some that are. I'm willing to discuss.
Valkorion can likely teleport and attack instantly before Mace can even locate him. An "instants distraction" was almost enough for Sidious to kill him and Mace was right in front of him. And it takes far, far less time for Valkorion to attack than it takes Mace to locate and run over to him.
Sure, but Sidious boasts greater combat speed/ability than Valkorion. This is the guy who, on a potent dark side nexus, couldn't react to someone sending a bolt of Lightning back at him (even Dooku could manage that twice in AotC), and on that same nexus, only reacted to an astromech droid's attack "at the last instant". Then, on that same nexus, having a decent chance of losing to an injured Revan + two characters that he could've literally one-shotted. Not to mention walking straight into someone's lightsaber like a kid into a candy shop.
Compare that to Sidious disarming Maul in one strike once he pulls out all the stops (Shadow Conspiracy), disarming Yoda with a burst of Lightning (RotS movie), striking down Kit Fisto whilst simultaneously contending with an equal in Mace (RotS again), etc. So Sidious has a good record of precise, well-timed strikes in the midst of combat; not a bad thing that Mace was tagged by his TK on one occasion (and he recovered instantly anyway). I've yet to see Vitiate demonstrate that level of in-combat precision, timing or general ability.