Originally posted by carver9There is literally NO proof that Toppo is on par with a bonafide Hakaishin. Your character-wank =/= proof.
Toppo and Jiren are Hakaishin level. Don't know where this came from.
As for FP Jiren: I have acknowledged that he is likely around Beerus-level(mainly because the entire point/hype of MUI is that it has enabled Goku to 'surpass the Gods', and it wasn't until he attained MUI that he was able to do so.) There is NO proof Jiren has exceeded that level yet, though(again, your character-wank =/= proof.)
Originally posted by Ridley_Primeikr?
Ssh, we gotta act like all GoDs/Hakaishins are created equal for some reason.
Why are some people so stuck on the notion that just because all of them are called 'Hakaishin', doesn't mean they all possess identical power by default. The fuggin manga scene I posted blatantly depicts the fact that they are NOT all equal, ffs. 😂
Same goes for MUI: just because Goku has attained it certainly doesn't mean he can now match Whis, anymore than Whis can match Daishinkan.
Originally posted by Galan007
ikr?Why are some people so stuck on the notion that just because all of them are called 'Hakaishin', doesn't mean they all possess identical power by default. The fuggin manga scene I posted blatantly depicts the fact that they are NOT all equal, ffs. 😂
Same goes for MUI: just because Goku has attained it certainly doesn't mean he can now match Whis, anymore than Whis can match Daishinkan.
While in the Anime, they were shown as equals.
Originally posted by Galan007
Good thing there is a canon manga which confirms they *aren't* all equal. 🙂
The more I think about it, the more inclined I am to put MUI Goku at 11 or 12 right now. That would still put him comfortably above Beerus, but still far below the likes of Whis. Granted, I agree MUI Goku > Beerus, but I am certainly not of the opinion that he can KO Beerus with one casual chop, like Whis can. So imo, the gap between Whis and Goku is still MUCH larger than the gap between Goku and Beerus.
On that note, I'd put Jiren at 10 or 10.5, as I believe he is no less than equal to Beerus(and arguably a bit stronger.)
...Of course, anything could happen in the final few episodes. I'm just talking about what we know right now.
Per herms, in this source Beerus states Ultra Instinct Goku "might be stronger than him"(this is likely a line from the next episode, indicating that he is referring to MUI Goku):
https://i.imgur.com/8V6Fgt4.jpg
