Originally posted by bbrem123
Why would you think Jiren and MUI Goku are at the same level? When Jiren clearly got stomped at the end of the fight when Goku got serious.
Because the difference between each of the levels is massive. If winning a battle decisively were all it took to go up a level, Goku would have surpassed Whis a long time ago.
Originally posted by NewGuy01hmmm. Interesting point
Because each of the levels are massive. If winning a battle decisively were all it took to go up a level, Goku would have surpassed Whis a long time ago.
Whis is 5 levels above Beerus though. If Jiren could decisively beat Beerus you don't think MUI Goku who decisvely beat Jiren would not be able to stomp Beerus? Nevermind Whis.
Originally posted by bbrem123
hmmm. Interesting pointWhis is 5 levels above Beerus though. If Jiren could decisively beat Beerus you don't think MUI Goku who decisvely beat Jiren would not be able to stomp Beerus? Nevermind Whis.
Not sure what you're trying to say by bringing Whis into this, but if MUI Goku is a level 11, then he should absolutely be capable of beating the shit out of Beerus.
Originally posted by Galan007
If the consensus is that full power Jiren ~ Beerus, then MUI Goku probably would beat him decisively, tbh. After he got serious/pissed, Goku beat Jiren with an all-out punch+blast combo -- essentially two attacks... and he did so while markedly fatigued, to boot.srug
Nah, to me Limit breaker Jiren > Beerus easily.
Jiren was stated to have a power matching if not surpassing that of the GoDs way before revealing his "limit breaker" form.
Why do you think so?
God Toppo is Hakaishin level (granted, even if low tier or noob), and Jiren was casually beyond that.
To me Jiren doesn't need his full mad form power to be beyond Hakaishin level, he already is by default, even if not by a lot if we consider the strongest GoDs such as Beerus.
With his 100% mad form, it's a no contest IMHO.
The fact that Toppo is a Hakaishin *candidate*, and can use the destruction energy to an extent, certainly doesn't mean he is even remotely close to bonafide Hakaishin-level... especially when we already know that each Hakaishin is NOT created equal -- their powers vary wildly from universe to universe(the manga's Zen exhibition match proved that much.)
Heck Beerus himself told SSB Vegeta that he'd be a good candidate for Hakaishin in *another* universe... moments after effortlessly ragdolling him, lol.
So yeah, suppressed Jiren being > Toppo certainly doesn't put him above Beerus by proxy... at least imo.
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Why do you think so?
God Toppo is Hakaishin level (granted, even if low tier or noob), and Jiren was casually beyond that.To me Jiren doesn't need his full mad form power to be beyond Hakaishin level, he already is by default, even if not by a lot if we consider the strongest GoDs such as Beerus.
With his 100% mad form, it's a no contest IMHO.
Agreed.
Carver's life revolves around power levels. It's why he connects so well with Hulk and Jiren. His life story is like a combination of the two.
When he was growing up his dad used to beat up his whole family. One day he got a group of his family and friends to come over to take out his dad, but wouldn't you know it, he beat them up too and vanished out of Carv's life.
Carver's been getting more powerful and angrier everyday in anticipation of the showdown of his life. Carver only respects power and knows his strength is infinite if he applies it. One day, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but one day he will run into Brian Carverson Sr and he needs to be the Carver in the situation, not the Carved.
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Carver's life revolves around power levels. It's why he connects so well with Hulk and Jiren. His life story is like a combination of the two.When he was growing up his dad used to beat up his whole family. One day he got a group of his family and friends to come over to take out his dad, but wouldn't you know it, he beat them up too and vanished out of Carv's life.
Carver's been getting more powerful and angrier everyday in anticipation of the showdown of his life. Carver only respects power and knows his strength is infinite if he applies it. One day, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but one day he will run into Brian Carverson Sr and he needs to be the Carver in the situation, not the Carved.
😂 😂 😂
And that is precisely why I referenced the ever so important "context".
carver is trying to pretend like Belmond's statement automatically puts Toppo on par with the upper-end Hakaishin, like Beerus. But as you and I well know, that couldn't be further from the truth(which is why his statement IS very much wrong.)
He just wants Jiren to be worlds beyond Beerus-level SO bad that he's willing to overlook any/all context behind most scenes... This is phase one. 👆