Karness Muur vs. Cade Skywalker

I'll get to the other points later, as for Murr merely "existing during Krayt's era" that does not mean that quote incapsulates him.

The quote says that Krayt possessed TK and Lightning that outstripped sith of his era. If it said he has powers greater than any sith during his time or in his era. It might incapsulate Muur. But as Muur establishes himself as a sith of a completely different time, he technically avoids inclusion to the quote.

For example the title King George of England, doesn't change because he visited Spain for a couple of months. The same applies to Muur.

Krayt himself is not of the Legacy era if we want to go into forced semantics here.

What I was saying was that Krayt was present during the empire era as well so you know, the idea that because Muur was born millennia ago somehow exempts him from the quote is clearly BS when Krayt himself is a person who wasn't born in the Legacy time.

He is not technically born during that time, but it is the period of time where he establishes most of his infamy and power. Which is why, Darth Krayt of the Legacy Era works. The same can not be said for Muur who established himself during the time of the exiles. And only exists as a spirit bound to a tallisman, during the Legacy era.

Not that I would even go into it, because obviously it is a "reaching for the sky" kind of argument.

Originally posted by ILS
He did. He was the only one in possession of healing powers that Krayt coveted, and he outshone both Krayt and Cade when he blasted a lightsaber-impaled Krayt.

Considering he exists during the Legacy era, sounds kind of silly.

Not really. Krayt proves a clear superior to Celeste on her own, and the only times Krayt battles Muur and Celeste proper are so brief we cannot conclude anything substantial. Moreover, it was not only Muur fighting, but Muur and Celeste's joined power versus Krayt.

Lol.

I already read your arguments, I just don't think they have any merit. No need to repost them. JMANGO's interpretation is correct, you're just trying to cheese your way out of the quote and Muur is from the Exile's era, not Krayt's.

Like JMANGO said, Muur himself is constantly pointing out that he's not from Krayts era.

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Not that I would even go into it, because obviously it is a "reaching for the sky" kind of argument.

That using a quote saying Krayt is more powerful than sith of his own Era, makes him better than Muur, a Sith of a completely different era?

I agree.

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
What I was saying was that Krayt was present during the empire era as well so you know, the idea that because Muur was born millennia ago somehow exempts him from the quote is clearly BS when Krayt himself is a person who wasn't born in the Legacy time.

So, it is practically a self defeating argument.

Originally posted by JMANGO
I'll get to the other points later, as for Murr merely "existing during Krayt's era" that does not mean that quote incapsulates him.

The quote says that Krayt possessed TK and Lightning that outstripped sith [b]of his era. If it said he has powers greater than any sith during his time or in his era. It might incapsulate Muur. But as Muur establishes himself as a sith of a completely different time, he technically avoids inclusion to the quote.

For example the title King George of England, doesn't change because he visited Spain for a couple of months. The same applies to Muur.

He is not technically born during that time, but it is the period of time where he establishes most of his infamy and power. Which is why, Darth Krayt of the Legacy Era works. The same can not be said for Muur who established himself during the time of the exiles. And only exists as a spirit bound to a tallisman, during the Legacy era. [/B]

Like I said, if we simply defer to the material, we have answers available to us.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I already read your arguments, I just don't think they have any merit. No need to repost them. JMANGO's interpretation is correct, you're just trying to cheese your way out of the quote and Muur is from the Exile's era, not Krayt's.

Like JMANGO said, Muur himself is constantly pointing out that he's not from Krayts era.

Its a free forum. I read your argument and found it lacking. Don't get mad at me if you don't like my opinion on the thread.

Muur exists during Krayt's own era, lol.

Technically speaking, he "is" encapsulated in the quote. Muur is a Sith of the Legacy era. The fact that he was "born" and "had power and influence" in another era doesn't change that.

Grasp at straws even more. It's quite funny, by all means.

And I can go down to a museum and look at a bronze age knife. Nobody would ever try and argue the knife is of the modern era just because it still exists though.

Further, if you want to argue intent, as it is exactly what you are doing here, the "intent" is for Krayt to be labelled a Sith of the Legacy era. Just as you are making another random appeal to intent for Muur to be from another era, the exact same can be said of Krayt.

But, "technically speaking" Muur does come under the quote. And given as to how Krayt is not born in the Legacy era( or even a Sith Lord), yeah, I don't think there is wriggle room.

"Any Sith of his era" does not mean, "Any Sith born in this era", it means "any Sith that exists in this era".

Its not exactly rocket science that its referring to Krayts "One Sith" order as being his era of Sith. 🙄

Yeah, and its not rocket science that Krayt is intended to be from the Legacy era in the quote, but he is in fact from the ROTE era.

You'll pardon me if I am not really convinced by this thing.

Anyways, let ILS continue his gig. I am done here.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And I can go down to a museum and look at a bronze age knife. Nobody would ever try and argue the knife is of the modern era just because it still exists though.

This is correct 👆

BTW, swords just because Neph shows a love of soy at every turn doesn't mean he's incapable of being correct about the interpretation of a fictional universe on occasion.

Muur exists during Krayt's own era, lol.

A Keen observation.

Technically speaking, he "is" encapsulated in the quote. Muur is a Sith of the Legacy era.

He's a sith of the Exile Era, because that's were he established the entirety of his fame as a sith lord. As above. A Bronze age Knife doesn't become a knife of modern times simply because it still exists within a glass case in a museum.

The fact that he was "born" and "had power and influence" in another era doesn't change that.

It really does.

I think Krayt far outstripping Muur's spirit is not something that is in a great deal of contention either way, unless perhaps you are Neph. But like I said, Celeste is not a Sith. Muur "of this era" is a spirit, but of his own era he is not.

Anyway, I'm interested to see what the Zigmeister has come up with. Let's not derail the thread further.

I agree, the important thing to note is that for all of Krayts supposed superiority in lightning Muur easily handled it while taunting him about how shit he was.

Well if Krayt outstripping Muur as a a spirit is what the quote is in reference to than obviously he is >>>>>. And yeah, I still don't think there's a clear victor to this thread.

For the sake of clarity I'm going to post the whole fight, which I've annotated.
https://imgur.com/a/FsWLK

As I said, there is very little actual fighting between CeleMuur and Krayt.

Muur didn't "easily handle" Krayt's lightning... they were both firing lightning at each other... for a grand total of two comic panels, before Krayt was stabbed.

Originally posted by ILS
Muur didn't "easily handle" Krayt's lightning... they were both firing lightning at each other... for a grand total of two comic panels, before Krayt was stabbed.

Even Morne was blocking Krayts lightning with her lightsaber while blocking Maladi's lightning with her hand.

Thanks for proving my point?

Morne was rapidly losing against that duo, and then Krayt appeared to back off and began talking her down.

https://i.imgur.com/m6zS5bG.jpg

Like, seeing as you place so much stock in Muur's dialogue, you might have been honest enough to point out that even Muur states Krayt > Celeste. But you weren't. 😬