17BBY Vader vs Darth Malgus (Decieved)

Started by The Ellimist8 pages

Originally posted by Nephthys
That retarded speeder feat is still getting thrown around? Jesus.

I'm pretty sure that literally stopping yourself in in mid-air from terminal velocity while carrying someone is slightly different from just cushioning your impact.

Her method was obviously less effective given that she injured herself despite expending considerable effort while Anakin pulled his version off casually. If Leneer could've done what Anakin did, she obviously would've.

The carrying someone else part is pretty trivial unless if you think a Jedi should struggle over a human's body weight.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Her method was obviously less effective given that she injured herself despite expending considerable effort while Anakin pulled his version off casually. If Leneer could've done what Anakin did, she obviously would've.

The carrying someone else part is pretty trivial unless if you think a Jedi should struggle over a human's body weight.

Perhaps she couldn't just land normally with the guy without the impact shattering his body. Maybe she'd just never attempted something like that before.

It doesn't matter, since like I said Malgus lands with a far greater impact than Anakin did with absolutely no ill effect. Leneer likewise takes his full impact on her guard while shrugging off his wave of power and deflecting the shrapnel with only minor trouble. The feat is utterly useless as any kind of scaling.

I foresee Neph defeating Andy here, if I'm being 100% honest.

And me and Neph are in no way fond of each other, historically.

Looking forward to seeing this unfold while I type my response. 😮‍💨

Originally posted by Nephthys
Perhaps she couldn't just land normally with the guy without the impact shattering his body.

Doesn't really have to do with her own injuries, unless if she would struggle so much to levitate a human body, which would be equally bad. The concentration needed to do that padawan-tier feat shouldn't compare to the concentration Anakin needed to avoid every single airspeeder and then land on the right one at exactly the right place and moment.

Maybe she'd just never attempted something like that before.

There are always ways to mitigate bad feats ("maybe she'd never tried it before!"😉, that doesn't invalidate it as an argument.

It doesn't matter, since like I said Malgus lands with a far greater impact than Anakin did with absolutely no ill effect.

Well this was about the feat of beating Leneer, not the whole body of Malgus's feats. But that's still not as impressive as what Anakin did for a variety of reasons, like Malgus landing on his feet and not needing to time his fall.

Also, how is it greater impact? Anakin also landed on a really fast (> 80 mph?) airspeeder.

Leneer likewise takes his full impact on her guard while shrugging off his wave of power and deflecting the shrapnel with only minor trouble. The feat is utterly useless as any kind of scaling.

There's clearly a difference between blocking that attack with her lightsaber and doing what Anakin did.

I actually just checked the book and earlier she jumps off a hundred meter ledge and casually hits the floor.

"A hundred meters down, the Alderaanian landscape unrolled before her, a meadow of tall grasses, shrubs, and slim apo trees that whispered and swayed in the breeze. She could not see the walls of the compound through the vegetation.

....

Heart racing, she turned and leapt into the open air, following her thoughts groundward, untethered from the Order, from nonattachment, from everything save her need to right a wrong.

Using the Force to slow her descent, she hit the ground in a crouch and sped off. No one had seen her leave and no one would mark her absence before dawn. She would be at her ship and gone well before that."

Glad to finally put this to rest.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I actually just checked the book and earlier she jumps off a hundred meter ledge and casually hits the floor.

"A hundred meters down, the Alderaanian landscape unrolled before her, a meadow of tall grasses, shrubs, and slim apo trees that whispered and swayed in the breeze. She could not see the walls of the compound through the vegetation.

....

Heart racing, she turned and leapt into the open air, following her thoughts groundward, untethered from the Order, from nonattachment, from everything save her need to right a wrong.

Using the Force to slow her descent, she hit the ground in a crouch and sped off. No one had seen her leave and no one would mark her absence before dawn. She would be at her ship and gone well before that."

Glad to finally put this to rest.

There's no comparison between just jumping onto the ground while having to brace her fall on her feet and navigating through a traffic of airspeeders, hitting a metal surface at the right time and getting immediately accelerated to > 80 mph along a different axis while landing on your stomach/face.

Right, since she wasn't trying to do any of that so its a pointless comparison to try and make. haermm

Your point was that she failed to stick the landing. I proved she could easily do that shit, so its irrelevant.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Your point was that she failed to stick the landing. I proved she could easily do that shit, so its irrelevant.

No, not really because she fails to do the same feat later when she's falling from a longer distance (read: closer to what Anakin was dealing with) and carrying someone.

Now, which do you think is a harder mitigating circumstance: carrying/levitating a human sized body or the equivalent of getting hit by an 80 mph car-sized object?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
No, not really because she fails to do the same feat later when she's falling from a longer distance (read: closer to what Anakin was dealing with) and carrying someone.

Now, which do you think is a harder mitigating circumstance: carrying/levitating a human sized body or the equivalent of getting hit by an 80 mph car-sized object?

She doesn't fail it, she actually completely stops her momentum, which is better and obviously more effort inducing than what Anakin did. The distance isn't that relevant, she'd already be going pretty fast feet first compared to Anakin's belly flop. Just give this up, its an idiotic argument and you're embarrassing yourself.

He hit it, he didn't get hit by it. So obviously its the first one since its the only actual mitigating factor. If anything hitting a hovercar that can bounce in midair is worse than hitting the ground. Like I said, she probably couldn't just take the impact normally because the other guy isn't a Jedi and would get ****ing pancaked.

Since the impact is clearly not any kind of a big deal the feats done, none of the other stuff is relevant. Unless you want to argue that Anakins better than literally anyone who hasn't done this very specific set of stuff this discussion should be over.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Unless you want to argue that Anakins better than literally anyone who hasn't done this very specific set of stuff this discussion should be over.
As you will see shortly, Ellimist only prescribes to such logic when it suits him.

There will be much squirming, and everyone will be here to enjoy it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
She doesn't fail it, she actually completely stops her momentum, which is better and obviously more effort inducing than what Anakin did. The distance isn't that relevant, she'd already be going pretty fast feet first compared to Anakin's belly flop. Just give this up, its an idiotic argument and you're embarrassing yourself.

😕

Aryn struggled and injured herself. Anakin did it casually and didn't injure himself. Not sure how you're defining "failure" but the point was never that she "failed", lol.

He hit it, he didn't get hit by it.

Lmfao those are literally the same thing.

So obviously its the first one since its the only actual mitigating factor. If anything hitting a hovercar that can bounce in midair is worse than hitting the ground.

There's no evidence the car bounces, and that would be trivial compared to the aforementioned acceleration anyway.

Like I said, she probably couldn't just take the impact normally because the other guy isn't a Jedi and would get ****ing pancaked.

Already addressed this. You are seriously arguing that levitating a human sized object is a better "excuse" than getting hit by an 80 mph airspeeder.

I don't see why you're so adamant about refusing to accept that Anakin did better here. He had tougher circumstances, he didn't get injured, Aryn did. You're better off pointing out that Anakin being better at one thing doesn't mean he's better across the board than pretending the two demonstrations are comparable.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
😕

Aryn struggled and injured herself. Anakin did it casually and didn't injure himself. Not sure how you're defining "failure" but the point was never that she "failed", lol.

Like I said, she completely stopped her momentum to hang in mid-air. Its totally different from just taking the impact. Anakin didn't do remotely the same thing, so its stupid to compare the two. She succeeded in performing the feat to a greater degree than he did. She minorly injured herself from the fall afterwards which she doesn't use the force for. If you want to argue that she made a bad call by attempting a more difficult task than he did then do so, but I think you'll find that I don't care.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lmfao those are literally the same thing.

No need to get pissy just because you were wrong. Anakin landing on something is different from getting hit by a moving object. Anakin can control his own momentum so that he isn't hitting with the same force as in the latter scenario.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
There's no evidence the car bounces, and that would be trivial compared to the aforementioned acceleration anyway.

You mean.... other than watching the scene and seeing the car bounce? Lol.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Already addressed this. You are seriously arguing that levitating a human sized object is a better "excuse" than getting hit by an 80 mph airspeeder.

I don't see why you're so adamant about refusing to accept that Anakin did better here. He had tougher circumstances, he didn't get injured, Aryn did. You're better off pointing out that Anakin being better at one thing doesn't mean he's better across the board than pretending the two demonstrations are comparable.

She isn't levitating them, she has to stop their momentum without hurting them. Lifting a human sized object is different from stopping two moving at terminal velocity without injuring anything.

Because its a retarded argument that keeps getting brought up in spite of never having an ounce of merit. There simply isn't a valid comparison. And there's no need for me to point out what's readily apparent to everyone, although I appreciate you admitting to your own arguments idiocy.

You didn't address my last point either. Since the impact has been proven negligible and the other aspects are irrelevant, this discussion should be over.

Do you have the passage and/or some keywords I can use to search for it? Do not currently have the novel with me and would rather not skim through the entire ebook preview.

Theres a respect thread. My version is too annoying to paste into a browser.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I like this troll-ILS. Sadly, much like Anakin, he appears to have lost much of his abilities - perhaps he sees a little bit of 17BBY Vader in himself? mmm

Sick burn champ.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
You realize that this implies that Eillimist > January ILS, right? 🙂

Well, given the extremely fragile state of your ego these days, I’ll throw you a bone.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Ferus Olin was considered by Obi Wan to be the second most gifted apprentice in the entire Order after Anakin - and when he later fights Vader (not as an apprentice), not only loses but says he moved faster than any Jedi he's ever seen, sans Yoda.

While being such a “gifted” apprentice according to Obi-Wan is cool and all, Kao Cen Darach was the single Jedi Master chosen to occupy the role of “battlemaster.”

To fill you in, there are estimated to be millions of Jedi during SWTOR, but if we lowball that and say there are tens of thousands my point remains prudent. Of those only the best become Jedi knights, and then the most exceptional become masters. Of those masters, a few are chosen to be lightsaber instructors, who “bear the scars that attest to hundreds of combat kills” and “is not a specialization you take on without first proving your mettle in combat.”

One battlemaster is chosen from these instructors. So you don’t get confused by the image, every time a battlemaster is killed in SWTOR, he is replaced, so this does not change even during the peak of the war. There’s only one.

Battlemasters then vet potential instructors for their worth, which then has to be verified by the High Council. Suffice to say, instructors go through immense screening and are absurdly skilled, upper echelon duelists within the order and by necessity are of prodigious status with the experience to back it up. And of them, one battlemaster is chosen, who operates above them and judges their worthiness. I’m wondering how you think this compares to Ferus’ accolade.
https://imgur.com/a/mSY8B

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Impressive but insufficient without knowing the capabilities of those Jedi.

Do you think Vader would enjoy being hit by such lightning?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Sure, 17BBY Vader is significantly weaker than Anakin Skywalker. So is Malgus, so what's your point?

Not according to your debate with Bart, where you were being handled quite well might I add. I digress.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Funny that Pax Javan,
Such blunders wouldn’t occur if you weren’t scrambling through RTs for all of your arguments, opposed to picking up a book.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
who has met Yoda, padawan Anakin, and likely many other Jedi like Mace Windu and Obi Wan, thought this era's Vader was the most powerful being he'd ever met.
That’s a nice opinion.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Was Javan [kek] utterly delusional about these legendary Jedi's abilities?
Yes, yes he was.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He was no scrub - he was a full Jedi Knight whose abilities were considered noticeably above average, so he's more than qualified enough to have a faint grasp of how powerful people in the Order are.
I wonder why you think a faint grasp is enough for anyone to give a shit?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
What about Ferus Olin, one of the most gifted Jedi in the entire Order? Was he just delusional when he thought Vader moved faster than anyone he'd seen other than Yoda? Was the second most gifted Jedi of his generation utterly clueless about his comrades' power levels?
Yes, he is utterly clueless, and there are plenty of other reasons his opinion could be considered unreliable, such as the general awe he is in of facing Vader firsthand, the passage of time between now and then, and that he likely didn’t see any of these Jedi at their best.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
To be clear, I agree that 17BBY Vader would not actually stand a chance against, say, Yoda or peak Mace Windu in a fight.
Making his opinion worthless. We know Vader is powerful, some guy who has no authority over the capabilities of Windu and co. suggesting he’s more powerful is ludicrous, which then leaves Vader’s standing in ambiguity overall, until you produce better accolades.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He emanates an enormous level of raw power that multiple credible sources agree is incredible, but he still hasn't regained his former self's confidence and practical power - ,
Yeah, you’re telling me.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
but against Malgus, whose innate talents with the Force by Deceived are paltry in comparison, the clunkiness of Vader's suit still isn't enough to give Malgus the victory
Having organic limbs instead of a hastily thrown together suit that is documented as impeding Vader’s movement, which would no doubt still be hindering him immensely after only two years of time spent adapting to it, is pretty helpful. Not that my point rests upon this. Now let’s look discuss who’s Force powers are actually “paltry in comparison.”

Originally posted by The Ellimist
not when Malgus needs some sort of epiphany to beat someone who can't do something padawan Anakin does in his sleep.

Your nebulous comparison to how people react to gravity in loosely comparable circumstance aside, let’s use something a little more reliable, shall we? Like a direct comparison of pre-prime Malgus and 1BBY Vader’s telekinesis.

Darth Vader in TFU II is, emphatically, incapable of holding back the power of a small, one-two man crew starfighter. Vader has a grip on it first, Starkiller accelerates, and “for a moment” it’s unsure who would win, then “all resistance fell away.”

”The starfighter behind him was unharmed by the devastation he had wrought. Starkiller ran to it and leapt inside. He worked its familiar controls with confident speed, activating systems still warm from its last flight. Its ion engines snarled.

An invisible fist gripped the starfighter. Starkiller increased the thrust. His determination met Darth Vader's rage, and for an instant he was unsure which would win.

Then all resistance fell away, and the TIE fighter leapt for the sky.”

--The Force Unleashed II

Compare this to Mid-Deceived Malgus. He holds back the “Razor,” a comparatively much larger vessel designed for cargo transportation and multiple passengers. Worse, he grabs it as it “continued its rise” which slowed it down. He held it for a significant amount of time as it’s “thrusters began to whine.” “He held it” indicates this thing is slowed significantly before it gets away.

He reached out with the Force as Razor continued its rise, tried to take it in his mental grasp. Its ascent slowed. He held forth both of his arms, made claws of his hands, and shouted with frustration as he sought to hold back the power of the ship’s thrusters.

He felt a tightness in his mind, the string of his power being drawn taut, stretching, stretching. He would not release the ship. Its thrusters began to whine. He held it, teeth gritted, sweat soaking his body, his breath a dry rattle through his respirator.

And then the string snapped and the ship flew free, lifting clear of the roof doors.

--Deceived

So Malgus held a much larger ship back, and thus contended with a far more powerful amount of accelerating force, but he also did it for longer than Vader and wasn’t holding it before it began to accelerate - it slowed it’s acceleration down.

And while Vader is 16 years the elder of the one being used in this thread when he fails to hold the TIE fighter, Malgus was yet to undergo an extreme intensification of his power.

Except then Eleena had accompanied him. It seemed a lifetime ago.

Thinking of Eleena blew oxygen on the embers of his anger. In life, Eleena had been his weakness, a tool to be exploited by rivals. In death, she had become his strength, her memory the lens of his rage.

He resided in the calm eye of a storm of hate. Power churned around him, within him. He did not feel as if he were drawing on the Force, using it. He felt as if he were the Force, as if he had merged with it.

He had evolved. Nothing split his loyalties any longer. He served the Force and only the Force, and his understanding of it increased daily.

--Deceived

I thought it pertinent to post the video below, as it’s a fitting metaphor for your attempt at debating in this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8cAKpzR6VE

If ILS proves that Malgus > Vader does Ant have to put him in the title of the super thread?

While being such a “gifted” apprentice according to Obi-Wan is cool and all, Kao Cen Darach was the single Jedi Master chosen to occupy the role of “battlemaster.”

To fill you in, there are estimated to be millions of Jedi during SWTOR, but if we lowball that and say there are tens of thousands my point remains prudent. Of those only the best become Jedi knights, and then the most exceptional become masters. Of those masters, a few are chosen to be lightsaber instructors, who “bear the scars that attest to hundreds of combat kills” and “is not a specialization you take on without first proving your mettle in combat.”

One battlemaster is chosen from these instructors. So you don’t get confused by the image, every time a battlemaster is killed in SWTOR, he is replaced, so this does not change even during the peak of the war. There’s only one.

Battlemasters then vet potential instructors for their worth, which then has to be verified by the High Council. Suffice to say, instructors go through immense screening and are absurdly skilled, upper echelon duelists within the order and by necessity are of prodigious status with the experience to back it up. And of them, one battlemaster is chosen, who operates above them and judges their worthiness. I’m wondering how you think this compares to Ferus’ accolade.

*clap clap* Nice job backtracking from Aryn Leneer, given that Aryn's only scaling from Kao is their respective performances against Malgus...but then at that point given that Malgus is the person you're trying to quantify here you should've just started off with Kao.

Does being a battlemaster require you to be the second best Jedi of your generation? Obviously not since most of the most powerful Jedi of an era tend to not choose to become battlemasters (e.g. Yoda/Mace/Obi Wan vs. Cin Drallig). So becoming a battlemaster is incredibly impressive, but not on the level of being second out of all apprentices in the Jedi Order.

The problem here is that people may zero in on the word "apprentice" while ignoring the fact that Ferus isn't an apprentice when he faces Vader. The fact that he was a great apprentice relative to his peers is a good indication of his potential because it adjusts for experience, and comes from a highly credible source (Obi Wan).

Do you think Vader would enjoy being hit by such lightning?

So your response to my claim that your feat can't be quantified is to just rhetorically ask me to do it for you? Seriously?

Not according to your debate with Bart, where you were being handled quite well might I add. I digress.

Yes, you do digress - I accept your concession since you didn't actually respond to what you were quoting. I take it you drop that argument then. 👆

Such blunders wouldn’t occur if you weren’t scrambling through RTs for all of your arguments, opposed to picking up a book.

Says the person who went on a huge Bane wank trail, which largely focused on RoT feats, and then admitted he's never even read RoT? Lol ok.

That’s a nice opinion.

Yes, yes he was.

I wonder why you think a faint grasp is enough for anyone to give a shit?

Do you actually have a meaningful rebuttal to make?

Yes, he is utterly clueless, and there are plenty of other reasons his opinion could be considered unreliable, such as the general awe he is in of facing Vader firsthand,

😕 If Vader weren't particularly powerful why would he be in awe of him? LMFAO

In either case it's absurd to dismiss two independent accolades from seasoned veterans (and a third if you count Nick on Vader >>> Vastor) just because they all fumble up because they're in "awe" of him. You're palpably grasping at straws.

the passage of time between now and then, and that he likely didn’t see any of these Jedi at their best.

One of the best Jedi in the Order never once saw any of the Jedi he regularly interacted with fight seriously, and was just utterly delusional about everyone's abilities?

Again, you're grasping at straws. Witness testimony is certainly meaningful evidence if it is from multiple credible sources, and here we have three combat veterans (Nick, Jax, Ferus), two of which were Jedi, one of which was the best Jedi in the whole Order, clearly contradicting your notions of Vader's lack of power.

Or does Vader have some sort of telepathic field that makes several independent sources vastly overestimate his power? Is it his scary mask?

Making his opinion worthless. We know Vader is powerful, some guy who has no authority over the capabilities of Windu and co. suggesting he’s more powerful is ludicrous, which then leaves Vader’s standing in ambiguity overall, until you produce better accolades.

No, you misread me. I said Vader doesn't have the same combat ability or Force mastery as either of those two.

Regardless, whether Jax is right about Vader > Yoda in raw power is beside the point. For Jax to at least think that, Vader can't be, say, dramatically weaker than the B-team or Cin Drallig, or else you'd have to conclude that Ferus, one of the best Jedi of the Order, was delusional and clueless about everyone's abilities, which makes absolutely no sense.

Analogy: if Luke sees a building and in the text guesses it's 700 meters high but turns out it wasn't, that doesn't mean it's plausible that it's 10 meters tall lol.

Your nebulous comparison to how people react to gravity in loosely comparable circumstance aside,

Good thing you only shaft this objection into a single dependent clause because I doubt you'd actually have the technical knowledge to meaningful engage with or analyze it. 🙂

let’s use something a little more reliable, shall we? Like a direct comparison of pre-prime Malgus and 1BBY Vader’s telekinesis.

Darth Vader in TFU II is, emphatically, incapable of holding back the power of a small, one-two man crew starfighter. Vader has a grip on it first, Starkiller accelerates, and “for a moment” it’s unsure who would win, then “all resistance fell away.”

Compare this to Mid-Deceived Malgus. He holds back the “Razor,” a comparatively much larger vessel designed for cargo transportation and multiple passengers. Worse, he grabs it as it “continued its rise” which slowed it down. He held it for a significant amount of time as it’s “thrusters began to whine.” “He held it” indicates this thing is slowed significantly before it gets away.

Lol, after calling my feat ambiguous, this is the best you can come up with?

Let's look at the unquantified info in that comparison:

1. The thrust of a ~1 BBY tie fighter vs. the thrust of a ship much larger...but literally >4,000 years more primitive. Given that in the few decades between TCW and ANH almost all of the Republic fleet's ships had become obsolete, and by LotF even imperial era tech was considered "ancient hardware" by Caedus.

2. Whether thrusters "whining" means that the ship is slowing down, when it just implies that they're straining themselves more than usual (physics 101 lesson: the acceleration of the ship can decrease without the velocity decreasing).

3. How fast and far away Starkiller's tie fighter is vs. how fast and far away the Razor is by the time they are being pulled, given that the Razor from the context that you provided seemed to still be inside some sort of structure while it's unclear how far away Starkiller's tie fighter was.

4. Whether Vader allowed Starkiller to escape, given that other Legends material reveals that the events of TFU II were at least in part a test for the dark apprentice.

So no, not nearly as clear.

Now, apparently you are trying to boast about responding to arguments by calling them "stupid" and then deleting them from your reply, and justifying your assertions with such wonderful elaborations as "yes, yes he is". To which I suppose your trolling has been pretty 10/10 hilarious. 🙂

Originally posted by The Ellimist
*clap clap* Nice job backtracking from Aryn Leneer, given that Aryn's only scaling from Kao is their respective performances against Malgus...but then at that point given that Malgus is the person you're trying to quantify here you should've just started off with Kao.

Does being a battlemaster require you to be the second best Jedi of your generation? Obviously not since most of the most powerful Jedi of an era tend to not choose to become battlemasters (e.g. Yoda/Mace/Obi Wan vs. Cin Drallig). So becoming a battlemaster is incredibly impressive, but not on the level of being second out of all apprentices in the Jedi Order.

The problem here is that people may zero in on the word "apprentice" while ignoring the fact that Ferus isn't an apprentice when he faces Vader. The fact that he was a great apprentice relative to his peers is a good indication of his potential because it [b]adjusts for experience, and comes from a highly credible source (Obi Wan).

So your response to my claim that your feat can't be quantified is to just rhetorically ask me to do it for you? Seriously?

Yes, you do digress - I accept your concession since you didn't actually respond to what you were quoting. I take it you drop that argument then. 👆

Says the person who went on a huge Bane wank trail, which largely focused on RoT feats, and then admitted he's never even read RoT? Lol ok.

Do you actually have a meaningful rebuttal to make?

😕 If Vader weren't particularly powerful why would he be in awe of him? LMFAO

In either case it's absurd to dismiss two independent accolades from seasoned veterans (and a third if you count Nick on Vader >>> Vastor) just because they all fumble up because they're in "awe" of him. You're palpably grasping at straws.

One of the best Jedi in the Order never once saw any of the Jedi he regularly interacted with fight seriously, and was just utterly delusional about everyone's abilities?

Again, you're grasping at straws. Witness testimony is certainly meaningful evidence if it is from multiple credible sources, and here we have three combat veterans (Nick, Jax, Ferus), two of which were Jedi, one of which was the best Jedi in the whole Order, clearly contradicting your notions of Vader's lack of power.

Or does Vader have some sort of telepathic field that makes several independent sources vastly overestimate his power? Is it his scary mask?

No, you misread me. I said Vader doesn't have the same combat ability or Force mastery as either of those two.

Regardless, whether Jax is right about Vader > Yoda in raw power is beside the point. For Jax to at least think that, Vader can't be, say, dramatically weaker than the B-team or Cin Drallig, or else you'd have to conclude that Ferus, one of the best Jedi of the Order, was delusional and clueless about everyone's abilities, which makes absolutely no sense.

Analogy: if Luke sees a building and in the text guesses it's 700 meters high but turns out it wasn't, that doesn't mean it's plausible that it's 10 meters tall lol.

Good thing you only shaft this objection into a single dependent clause because I doubt you'd actually have the technical knowledge to meaningful engage with or analyze it. 🙂

Lol, after calling my feat ambiguous, this is the best you can come up with?

Let's look at the unquantified info in that comparison:

1. The thrust of a ~1 BBY tie fighter vs. the thrust of a ship much larger...but literally >4,000 years more primitive. Given that in the few decades between TCW and ANH almost all of the Republic fleet's ships had become obsolete, and by LotF even imperial era tech was considered "ancient hardware" by Caedus.

2. Whether thrusters "whining" means that the ship is slowing down, when it just implies that they're straining themselves more than usual (physics 101 lesson: the acceleration of the ship can decrease without the velocity decreasing).

3. How fast and far away Starkiller's tie fighter is vs. how fast and far away the Razor is by the time they are being pulled, given that the Razor from the context that you provided seemed to still be inside some sort of structure while it's unclear how far away Starkiller's tie fighter was.

4. Whether Vader allowed Starkiller to escape, given that other Legends material reveals that the events of TFU II were at least in part a test for the dark apprentice.

So no, not nearly as clear.

Now, apparently you are trying to boast about responding to arguments by calling them "stupid" and then deleting them from your reply, and justifying your assertions with such wonderful elaborations as "yes, yes he is". To which I suppose your trolling has been pretty 10/10 hilarious. 🙂 [/B]

Adding to the list for the thrusters,

5. The fact that more pro-Vader assumptions better reconciles with evidence from the same plot given that Starkiller can blast apart frigates and ragdoll several hundred meter long Tantive IV's, but doesn't just ragdoll Vader, who according to you is like millions of times less powerful.

its almost as if tfu is wildly inconsistent or something

lul that coming from the tor wanker