Exar Kun vs. Mace Windu

Started by The_Tempest9 pages
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Using the quotes within itself isn't the problem; the way it's used in regards to get around the Malak excerpt, however, is.

If it's the "darkest power in the galaxy" quote, that in no way necessarily means "most powerful darkness in the galaxy."

I take it that you also concede Vader ~ Yoda and Vader > Anakin. Because the same source claims that too.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
If it's the "darkest power in the galaxy" quote, that in no way necessarily means "most powerful darkness in the galaxy."

Given that it states immediately after that, that he 'walks away with something that will make him even stronger', it certainly does mean that.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I take it that you also concede Vader ~ Yoda and Vader > Anakin. Because the same source claims that too.

Is there something inherently wrong with these claims outside of them not matching up with your opinion?

Given Vader was never equating ROTS Sheev in power and that it's a fact on every level that Anakin > Vader, yeah there's a mighty big problem.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Given Vader was never equating ROTS Sheev in power and that it's a fact on every level that Anakin > Vader, yeah there's a mighty big problem.

Please provide the quote and was it approved by Leland or simply an RPG stat.

Windu decent fight.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I take it that you also concede Vader ~ Yoda and Vader > Anakin. Because the same source claims that too.

Pretty sure the quotes you're referring to were strictly rpg mechanics.

I mean, honestly, this is no greater a source than, for example, the blurb on the Darth Plagueis novel. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that a novel stated to be the most important published Star Wars material to date, is on a vastly higher level of authenticity than any Wizards article. Yet this novel wasn't just maintained by someone like Leland Chee, it went through the desk of none other than George Lucas before the stamp of approval. Yet Chee insists such statements are subjective in nature.

Now unless you want to go about arguing that a Wizards supplement has any form of greater viability to stand on its own two feet than the most carefully crafted work in all of Star Wars Expanded Universe history, then I imagine my point here is crystal clear.

More importantly, being published under a LucasFilm Ltd. banner does nothing to ascertain a level of infallibility on the point of those who wrote it. I say this because, if we're taking stuff such as that into account, one must come to the conclusion that a quote from the likes of Tom Veitch, or that a statement in Jedi Academy depicting Kun as a Sidious tier threat, is of just as great an import as anything Cory wrote in his web supplement.

Though instead of riding the fences of what is or isn't reliable in a medium that has long since been kicked to the curb, I'd simply remind people of this quote:

Once the most powerful and dangerous of the Dark Lords of the Sith, he [Exar Kun] was responsible for the deaths of millions four millennia before the rise of the Empire.
- The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

This is a quote in 2008 stating that Exar Kun was once the most powerful and dangerous of the Dark Lords of the Sith. Now this doesn't mean that he was the most powerful Dark Lord of the Sith up until he died, it means he was the most powerful Dark Lord of the Sith up until a point where another Dark Lord surpassed him in power.

Who also makes an appearance in the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia? You guessed it, Darth Malak. Malak on the Star Forge is directly referenced too. The only Sith in that book definitively placed over Kun is Sheev. Almost seems like that was a direct ratification of the quote naming Kun GOAT among Sith. Yet literally only Sheev is placed above him in said retcon.

Don't even get me started on how Traya in the Trayus Core factors in with all of this.

Malak is not far more powerful than Exar Kun.

Originally posted by Geistalt
I take it you have Kun > RotS Sidious, then.

By the way: he never beat Vodo through skill; he just broke his Forcestaff.

He's stated to have never stood a chance. If he could've competed with Kun in skill then he would've had a chance.

Originally posted by AncientPower
This is a quote in 2008 stating that Exar Kun was once the most powerful and dangerous of the Dark Lords of the Sith. Now this doesn't mean that he was the most powerful Dark Lord of the Sith up until he died, it means he was the most powerful Dark Lord of the Sith up until a point where another Dark Lord surpassed him in power.

👆 Which, according to Wizards of the Coast, was some 40 years later.

Yeah, no. The statement was from 2004 at best. TCSWE clearly doesn't place Malak above Exar Kun, and does in fact have only Sidious above Exar Kun.

Furthermore, we have the fact that Malachor V is demonstratably even stronger than the Star Forge, specifically the Trayus Core. Traya is quite evidently much more powerful than Malak. Yet we know Traya is definitively less powerful than the more prominent ancient Sith. All of whom are canonically inferior to Exar Kun, and arguably Marka Ragnos.

I'd also argue that the quote isn't exactly definitive in it's wording. Everybody seems to entertain the idea that when Muur's claimed to have powers that outshined Krayt's; it refers to techniques. This quote could quite possibly refer to the powers Malak and Revan uncovered, such as draining techniques and abilities naturally harnessed upon mastery of the Star Forge.

Mace stomps him.

TBH; Exar Kun is more powerful than Mace Windu, and might contend with the Jedi Master on his terms as in utilize his Sith Sorcery abilities to defeat his opponent.

Unless Kun fight Windu on the latter's terms, I am not sure how Windu would prevail.

What sorcery could Kun utilise that would even phase Windu?

Spirit-rending lightning, corrupting his lightsaber, incinerating him from the inside out. All the things he taught Kyp, essentially. It's also pretty clear he has many other techniques. Let's not start with Force blasts.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yeah, no. The statement was from 2004 at best. TCSWE clearly doesn't place Malak above Exar Kun, and does in fact have only Sidious above Exar Kun.

Not how it works.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
I find it funny guys like AP use quotes for Kun that was written before characters were even conceived -- to deflect the current status quo.

So, we disregard most of Palpatine's accolades, then? 💃

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Not how it works.

There's a dozen arguments against Malak and they stack-up very nicely.

Of course, you'll see it that way.

To someone with no emotional investment in neither character, the Malak quote is as clear as stated.