Exar Kun vs. Mace Windu

Started by JMANGO9 pages

I mean all the "powers" Malak displayed while amped by the star forge were either matched/surpassed by Exar Kun's weekend spirit on Korriban Yavin, getting stomped by Revan aside.

So what powers are we talking about that are far greater than Kun or Nadds?

I mean unless we're talking about trivial "powers", such his ability to build ships and assault droids of the Sith fleet with aid of the star forge.

That could be one possible explanation of the quote. Otherwise we're left with:

Draining some defenceless random Jedi
Force choking a pair of random Jedi
Killing a random Jeid with lighting
loosing to Revan

All while their own power is supposedly weaker thanks to the environment they're in. All feats that Spirit!Kun can achieve on his own. It looks like the ship and weaponry building function is the only possible explanation for the difference. Because in all manners of combative power Kun pretty much puts Malak on his ass, star forge or not.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Of course, you'll see it that way.

To someone with no emotional investment in neither character, the Malak quote is as clear as stated.

No, not at all. The quote is massively contradictory to Kun's canonical status from OOU and IU sources as a Sheev tier Sith in Force power. To ignore that is egregious at best.

Malak's stated to have been given far greater powers, plural. These powers could be, but aren't limited to, the unique giga-draining technique that others of the time had learned. Furthermore, the Star Forge afforded him the ability to extend his longevity indefinitely.

Beyond that, we know that Darth Traya was powered by a 'colossal geyser' of dark side energy. On a nexus that is demonstratably far more corruptive and lethal than anything we've seen the Star Forge display. Thus she empowered by the Trayus Core, would be even more powerful than Malak. Yet by every comparison, Traya is not as powerful as some of the strongest Ancient Sith Lords such as Naga Sadow, Tulak Hord, Ajunta Pall, and obviously the strongest amongst them, Marka Ragnos. All inferior sorcerers to Freedon Nadd, which given the stance on sorcery, can easily translate to power. Nadd, who is himself far inferior to Exar Kun in everything.

The most likely interpretation of a quote that is otherwise problematic, is the most logical stance to take. No emotional investment is required at all to arrive at these conclusions.

KoTOR game does not portray Force powers of a character in an awe-inspiring manner. Darth Malak might have become a Force-wizard on Star Forge after learning to harness its power to his advantage.

It's stated that it was Malak's cybernetic jaw and life support systems that gave him "powers far beyond Kun's" or whatever... That's stupid, tbh. And while it "falls under the Legends banner" and it is licensed by LucasArts, so is Tag and Bink.

So... Malak is > Kun and Plagueis destroyed Krypton. I'm fine with that, actually. 🙂

Originally posted by MythLord
It's stated that it was Malak's cybernetic jaw and life support systems that gave him "powers far beyond Kun's" or whatever... That's stupid, tbh.

No, it doesn't say that. It says that cybernetic enhancement is a possible explanation for Malak's powers that far surpass Exar Kun's, but in-context, the source is clearly hinting that the actual culprit is something else, i.e. the Star Forge.

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The quote alludes to Malak's cybernetic jaw being a simple explanation for powers greater than Exar Kun. A hilarious notion.

Anyway as the term isn't singular - "power" it can indeed be interpreted in various ways, and of course, this is exactly what the guys at LFL would agree with. The powers Malak exhibited on the star forge that are greater than Kun's amounts to the ability to construct his amada from the ground up and maybe the ability to revive himself form other Jedi. Kun stomps in all conventional force wielding categories. Even if we're comparing SF Malak to the weakest possible incarnation of Kun. In fact even when the temples that were tethering his spirit were destroyed, Exar still was seeking out better feats than Star Forge Malak.

Windu wins this. Interesting fight tbh.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
No, it doesn't say that. It says that cybernetic enhancement is a possible explanation for Malak's powers that far surpass Exar Kun's, but in-context, the source is clearly hinting that the actual culprit is something else, i.e. the Star Forge.
I'll never get tired of this quote going over people's heads, kek.

AP's interpretation has some merit imo.

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I never thought I'd ever say it, but yeah her/his/its(?) interpretation does have some merit. The intent of the quote, however, is pretty clear though - amped Malak is greater than Exar Kun, due to the influence of the Star Forge.

The question if the "far greater powers" are actually a linear correspondence of "far greater force power", is up to debate, though.

That's how I see it, tbh.

Kun stomps SF Malak Tbh

probably stomps Revan too

Why would it be referring to ships and droids if it posited the idea that Malak's metal jaw could be a reason for his power increase? His jaw doesn't create ships, last time I checked.

It seems to be talking about personal power. Or perhaps Malak's jaw is too simple an explanation for his political influence?

Originally posted by ILS
Why would it be referring to ships and droids if it posited the idea that Malak's metal jaw could be a reason for his power increase? His jaw doesn't create ships, last time I checked.
?

And the last time i checked Malak's cybernetic jaw didn't do anything to enhance his regular force powers....

Originally posted by Nephthys
AP's interpretation has some merit imo.

That rests on the idea that we have any valid comparison between Traya and the Ancient Sith, which we kind of don't since Avellone's vision never came to pass.

I meant the idea that the quote about Malak having greater powers than Kun could be referring to techniques instead of direct power. ILS himself made the same argument for Krayt and Muur and I don't see whats different here.

Originally posted by JMANGO
And the last time i checked Malak's cybernetic jaw didn't do anything to enhance his regular force powers....
Vader's suit was partially enhanced by Sith alchemy, as were Revan's robes and mask, so it's not out of the question Malak's jaw got the same treatment.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I meant the idea that the quote about Malak having greater powers than Kun could be referring to techniques instead of direct power. ILS himself made the same argument for Krayt and Muur and I don't see whats different here.
What's different is you were unwilling to accept such arguments until now; it seems your distaste for Malak outranks your distaste for Krayt?

Originally posted by ILS
Vader's suit was partially enhanced by Sith alchemy, as were Revan's robes and mask,

Once again, Neither of which enhanced their personal force powers rather than the material itself....