Originally posted by ILS
They can if they are designed that way.
Exactly. And in the realm of sorcerous apparitions, hyperspace travel and age old prophecies, the great power(s) granted by the Star Forge could indeed be explained by a personal sith artefact. For Murr and Ragnos, those come in the form of a necklace and a sword. For Malak, it could be what's hidden behind his vocal mask.
You're yet to prove that the Star Forge grants Malak new powers. More importantly, these powers are "far greater" than Kun or Nadd, so I'll leave you to meditate on what that might entail.
It does give him new powers. The first is the ability to manifest ships with the aid of a star. The second is the paraphernalia imprisoning Jedi, who are there to consume at his whim. A possible third is the ship's defences - cannons turbo lasers and stuff. All these have the possibility of being conflated with personal sith artefacts that grant magic powers or produce concussive blasts (akin to lasers/canons) but are explained by the Star Forge. They are supposedly far greater than Kun or Nadd. But it's not up to me to make sense of an accolade that might be objectivity wrong. However, I'd definitely count the ability to mass produce an army in that number. The offensive and defensive powers Malak receives as result of an amp however, come up hilariously short.
I wasn't arguing Malak's impressiveness
A given thanks to the lack of material to work with here.
I was explaining to you that the significance of the Star Forge, according to the quotes posted earlier discussing it, is the power increase Malak draws from it
The two quotes in question do not tell me that the user's power increase is the primary function of the Star Forge. It at best tells me that it's one of the functions granted by the station. All you've done is find a bit of text that describes tapping into the Star Forges power and then claim that it's the stations main faculty. The problem here is that I can use a quote relating to a few of it's other utilities and do the same.
You continue to amaze me Revan. If only you had been the one to uncover the true power of the Star Forge you might have become truly invincible. But you were a fool. All you saw was an enormous factory. All you ever imagined was an infinite fleet rolling forth to crush the republic. [..]The Star Forge is more than just a space station. In some ways, it is like a living creature. It hungers. And it can feed on the dark side that is within all of us! Look around you, Revan. See the bodies? You should recognize them from the Academy. These are Jedi who fell when I attacked Dantooine. For all intents and purposes dead, except for one difference : I have not let them become one with the Force. Instead I have brought them here. The Star Forge corrupts what remains of their power and transfers the dark taint to me! You cannot beat me, Revan. Not here on the Star Forge. Not when I can draw upon the power of all these Jedi! And once you are beaten I will do the same to you. You will be trapped in a terrible existence between life and death, your power feeding me as I conquer the galaxy!
Darth Revan percived the ship factory as the Star Forges primary function. But Malak chastises Revan's perspective, claiming to understand it's true power. Malak then reveals the trump card of the Star Forge : that it allows him to siphon the energy of Jedi.... not the Forge itself, not the a fraction of the sun, but the energy of random jedi. And it's not even as if he drains them all at once. In the game, he breaks off from the contest to drain the Jedi captives one at a time.
This is Malak's supposed Ace in the hole... this is something Kun can do as disembodied spirit on Yavin, and does do to feed his power. The difference being that Kun's victims actually had the opportunity to defend themselves.
No, it just means that Malak doesn't need to "draw from all it's power at once" in order to be granted power superior to Kun. As for your essay on how, *gasp*, Malak isn't producing a sun's worth of power, that doesn't actually disprove the quote.
Your original premise was that he can draw from the power of the Sun, therefore a meaningful fraction of it should be enough to put him above Exar. Well it wasn't enough to put him above Revan, he's not displaying powers that are relative to even an infinitesimal fraction of a star's energy and his trump card is to siphon the power of random jedi, one at a time. If he really could manifest a meaningful fraction of the Sun's power, none of the above would be true. Thankfully, you've provided me with a quote that it explains why Malak is still pathetic while on the Star Forge. Unlike some poultry Nexus, exposure to the forge corrupts and devours those who tap into it's power. It stands to reason that while Malak can resist this affect better than the random sith before him, there is still a limit to how much energy he can draw without being devoured himself. In fact, Darth Malak planned to explore deeper into the Star Forge after disposing of Revan. Indicating he hadn't mastered the device prior to his death.
You can certainly argue Kun has better feats, something I'd agree with, but perhaps your posts would drip less of desperation if you'd stop misrepresenting my positions every 2 seconds. Just a thought. 😉
He has better feats when comparing his weakest incarnations to Malak's strongest. Thematically speaking, the elder council thought Revan alone would be enough to stop Malak on his turf, yet the entire militaristic portion of the Jedi Order was to depose of Kun. What Malak has in his favour, is a quote that can or can not be interpreted to reference his personal power. The quote can be dismissed in more ways than one, such as exploring what else the quote might be referring to. Aside from that, one can expose the subjective nature of the quote itself. A couple of members here were simply jizzing themselves at the prospect of Leeland Chee having glossed over the vaunted Malak quote (darthant, skillz and DarthSkywanker0 - i'm looking at you) In fact, it was Ant's big trump card in his debate with Elm. But what they don't understand is the ethos behind LFL's fact checking. Chee himself has alluded to a very flexible perspective when it comes to accolades. Especially those regarding power levels:
Question :If you definitively say that one Sith was the most powerful then by definition any others that you create in the EU must be inferior so I doubt the continuity people make such absolutes about the powerfulness of the characters.
Leland Chee :
Agreed, us continuity people don't deal in absolutes. Only Sith deal in absolutes. With that said, we'll often need to come up with stats or rankings for gameplay purposes. These are for gameplay purposes only. Stunt coordinato Nick Gillard had his own lightsaber ranking, but even the use of this ranking system is limited because it was only the major characters from the prequel films that he ranked. We never expanded on that ranking system.
Now based of this interaction one of two things can be true. Either Leland doesn't check SW sources meticulously enough. Or he isn't bothered by such accolades, because they have license to subjectivity themselves. Which goes hand in hand with the "foggy window" paradigm that states this - the only facts are in the six movies. It is really no wonder, that when prompted, he said the Darth Plagueis novel blurb could be subjective when it claimed the character was the most powerful sith in history. If you asked him, I expect he'll say the same for the Malak blog, especially as it's also just promotional material. Anyway there's more than enough evidence to refute the idea that SF Malak is >>> Kun. To the contrary, Malak is pathetic in comparison... the personal opinion of Cory Herndon aside.
I don't. Never the less, Mace not being quick enough to slice an unarmed dooku before Jango could shoot him does put him below Jedi Ulic. It also means he can't make his body blaster resistant without a hand gesture, like Ulic can. He also got cornered by.. what a couple od thousand droids in that episode, which means the scope of his environmental powers isn't top tier like Exar's is.
Originally posted by MythLord
I mean, when Exar Kun is considered sub-Malak...
Considered by those who want to wank Revan just a little bit more. Gotta squeeze that last drop of seminal fluid out of his flaccid penis before his character finally achieves irrelevancy.
But no, there are objective quotes placing Exar above Luke, even as a spirit. Moreover, there are similar quotes objectively placing Kun up there with Sheev. Now unless you're willing to let one interpretation of one, as of yet unclarified, statement in a web supplement place Malak as far more powerful than Sheev, I believe my job is done.
Originally posted by AncientPowerPost the quotes, tbh
Considered by those who want to wank Revan just a little bit more. Gotta squeeze that last drop of seminal fluid out of his flaccid penis before his character finally achieves irrelevancy.But no, there are objective quotes placing Exar above Luke, even as a spirit. Moreover, there are similar quotes objectively placing Kun up there with Sheev. Now unless you're willing to let one interpretation of one, as of yet unclarified, statement in a web supplement place Malak as far more powerful than Sheev, I believe my job is done.
