Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Through the Star Forge, couldn't Malak produce and endless number of warships and droids all drenched and enhanced by the dark side? That does come under the umbrella of "far greater powers than Kun or Nadd" doesn't it? Just curious.
The correct interpretation of the quote has been confirmed by the author. The attempts to skirt around its meaning are hilarious.
Lmao, I have neither need nor interest to skirt around it since, not only does it greatly benefit Mace, but I have advocated against Kun for quite some time and have always favored Revan over him.
Where has the author confirmed it? Regardless, I am going by the statement in the quote itself where it refers to "powers" far greater than Kun or Nadd and clearly the production of an endless armada qualifies. Unless there is something I missed in which case I phrased the entire thing as a question and mentioned that I was curious. Usually that calls for someone to clarify, not attack.
Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Lmao, I have neither need nor interest to skirt around it since, not only does it greatly benefit Mace, but I have advocated against Kun for quite some time and have always favored Revan over him.Where has the author confirmed it? Regardless, I am going by the statement in the quote itself where it refers to "powers" far greater than Kun or Nadd and clearly the production of an endless armada qualifies. Unless there is something I missed in which case I phrased the entire thing as a question and mentioned that I was curious. Usually that calls for someone to clarify, not attack.
LordoftheLight on Kun vs. Revan force only:
Here is the author quasi-confirming what is plainly evident to the impartial viewer.
http://i.imgur.com/X1ygJzZ.jpg
This statement, of course, is in reference to the quote. With no prompting from the questioner, Herndon interprets the quote as a direct comparison of power levels.
Dude, that was nearly a year ago, and my hobby as a "proper" debater( with at least some knowledge of the SW universe) itself was around 30% at the time. I haven't been around like Nova or ILS have for many years. When I say "always", I mean, "for a noticeably long time and I don't recall at the moment when I thought otherwise".
Since you are looking at outdated timelines, you might as well have looked the part where I declared Revan above Krayt. Something I am definitely sure I wouldn't do now(for quite some time).
It does sound like he is giving his own opinion on the fight, and not necessarily saying that "Malak is far more powerful than Kun", but fair enough.
Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Dude, that was nearly a year ago, and my hobby as a "proper" debater( with at least some knowledge of the SW universe) itself was around 40% at the time. I haven't been around like Nova or ILS have for many years. When I say "always", I mean, "for a noticeably long time and I don't recall at the moment when I thought otherwise".Since you are looking at outdated timelines, you might as well have looked the part where I declared Revan above Krayt.
It does sound like he is giving his own opinion on the fight, and not necessarily saying that "Malak is far more powerful than Kun", but fair enough.
1. You claimed you always held that position, I empirically proved that to be false. You may insert some dummy modifier which was never stated nor implied, but it does not change the meaning of your words. And eight months is not a long time.
2. Herndon's opinion on the bout is irrelevant. What is important is that he interpreted the quote as a direct comparison of powers.
Originally posted by AncientPower
I like how the quote isn't nearly that definitive, so we revert to author clarififation. But we then nitpick what is usable and what isn't.
The quote is clearly definitive to any impartial viewer; the intent just reinforces the obvious. I think it is pretty essential to know what is usable and what isn't.
Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
1. You claimed you always held that position, I empirically proved that to be false. You may insert some dummy modifier which was never stated nor implied, but it does not change the meaning of your words. And eight months is not a long time.2. Herndon's opinion on the bout is irrelevant. What is important is that he interpreted the quote as a direct comparison of powers.
1. What I said:"I have always believed Revan to be superior to Kun"
What I meant:"I have held that opinion when I came here( in SW debating) and for a long time now. If at some point in the middle, my opinion changed( temporarily), it is neither noteworthy, nor do I even remember it".
Forgive me for not being "exact" with this statement, but that is what I meant. And 8 months is a long time for someone like me, certainly long enough for something like this to be rendered irrelevant.
2. Yeah, that is one, but pretty fair way to look at it, which is why I accepted it. I could argue it, but I have no interest in doing so.
Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
1. What I said:"I have always believed Revan to be superior to Kun"What I meant:"I have held that opinion when I came here( in SW debating) and for a long time now. If at some point in the middle, my opinion changed( temporarily), it is neither noteworthy, nor do I even remember it".
Forgive me for not being "exact" with this statement, but that is what I meant. And 8 months is a long time for someone like me, certainly long enough for something like this to be rendered irrelevant.
2. Yeah, that is one, but pretty fair way to look at it, which is why I accepted it. I could argue it, but I have no interest in doing so.
1. I was simply correcting an error in verbiage. Your ventures into Star Wars debating don't matter to me.
2. Cheers.
Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0Kek, "you must be bound by something you said 243 days ago, so says Darthskywalker!!!" stfu trigga.
1. You claimed you always held that position, I empirically proved that to be false. You may insert some dummy modifier which was never stated nor implied, but it does not change the meaning of your words. And eight months is not a long time.2. Herndon's opinion on the bout is irrelevant. What is important is that he interpreted the quote as a direct comparison of powers.
Originally posted by LordOfTheLightConsider the context:
Through the Star Forge, couldn't Malak produce and endless number of warships and droids all drenched and enhanced by the dark side? That does come under the umbrella of "far greater powers than Kun or Nadd" doesn't it? Just curious.
"An imposing figure with ghostly pale features, prominent Sith tattoos, a gleaming red lightsaber, and devastating Dark Side power, Malak struck terror into the hearts of his former allies. He also wore a vocal mask that may have concealed a form of cybernetic life-support. Did it provide him with powers far greater than even Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd, or was cybernetic enhancement too simple an explanation?"It can only be referring to personal power, if it was referring to anything related to military power there would be no mention of his metal jaw.―Wizards of the Coast: Darth Malak
Originally posted by AncientPower
If author clarification is being reverted to, then Kun is confirmed to be Sheev tier, making it impossible for him to be far less powerful than Malak.
Stop conflating antiquated contradicted authorial intent with authorial clarification. They are two very different things. In one case the author is asserting his view on a character whereas in the other the author is clarifying what is ambiguous(not that the quote is).
Veitch is confirming a quote from Champions of the Force, which is also echoed in I, Jedi. It's got nothing to do with authorial intent, lmfao.
Speaking of which:
Where exactly does he confirm anything here? All he says was that the content went through LFL and then says that his opinion is still Malak > Exar Kun. Nothing about the actual quote was clarified at all.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Veitch is confirming a quote from Champions of the Force, which is also echoed in I, Jedi. It's got nothing to do with authorial intent, lmfao.Speaking of which:
Where exactly does he confirm anything here? All he says was that the content went through LFL and then says that his opinion is still Malak > Exar Kun. Nothing about the actual quote was clarified at all.
AP your attempts to squirm are funny but mind-numbing.
1 Veitch's statement was not referencing any of the quotes in I, Jedi and Champions of the Force. He was simply stating his opinion, nor does Veitch have the ability to corroborate any of those quotes as he did not write any of the books in question. Additionally, Kun's parity with DE Sidious has been contradicted by innumerable sources.
2. As I mentioned previously, without prompting from the questioner, Herndon interprets the quote as a direct comparison of power levels.
Your attempts to misread text are mind-numbing.
1.I've had multiple exchanges with the man, and he's confirmed that both he and KJA were involved in all aspects of Exar Kun's storyline. He even differed to KJA in a question regarding TOTJ.
Oh and no, it isn't contradicted at all, Sheev's TPM quote is from a Psuedo-Canon source, not Legends. So then we return to the ROTS quotes. But the problem therein is how much more powerful is DE Sheev compared to ROTS Sheev? Can you define that in anyway that so directly retcons Kun being on his level?
Because here's the thing. The quote is pre-Prequel trilogy. So obviously it isn't beholden to that. But neither does a full retcon need to be employed here. Leland Chee has made it clear across the years that such a move is the last resort not the first step. So we have to revert the quote to meaning that Kun is a threat in the same weight-class as Sidious in general. Something TCSWE does nicely. Which still means Malak is fvcked here either way.
2.He doesn't say that anywhere, all he confirms is:
-LFL reviewed the quote, making it Legends.
-He still thinks Exar Kun vs. Darth Malak goes to Malak.
What he doesn't say is:
-Darth Malak is far more powerful than Exar Kun.
What is still quite debatable:
- The context of cybernetic enhancements could mean that the quote refers to physical prowess.
- The context could quite easily refer to powers that mastery over the Star Forge could have given him. (E.g; Virtual immortality, 'GIGA' drain.)
I've yet to see anything more than shoulder barging on the part of others here to force the quote to 'clearly' mean something when it can mean many things.
1. Involvement in a series is a far cry from communication with the editor and physically putting your pen to paper. Not that Veitch's intent even matters as more recent sources contradict it.
2. AP think about this logically. Herndon was shown the quote. After seeing the quote, he confirmed LFL reviewed it. Rather than expounding upon its true intent, he explains his view on the power relationship between the two characters clearly referencing the statement. If the accolade was merely referring to "physical prowess," why would Herndon even mention such a comparison? It would be a complete non-sequitur to the topic at hand and create further confusion. It seems as if you are desperately trying to dodge the quote despite all evidence to the contrary.
